The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[Dwill]

There is a fundamental distrust among players that the game has fostered through its approach to content. In xi, I didn't have to deal with the drill sargeant,I could join a different linkshell and still do endgame activitIES.

Here, it is 1 activity, and a growing part of content that is walled off by a combination of player expectations, jumping ship, and team jump rope mechanics. Its setting people against each other as there is story, requirement, and loot behind it. And it has continued to render FCs and LSes unable to assist, except by conforming to the lockout. Meanwhile, clears are sold, videos and prior clears are demanded, "The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer," and then comes content outside the raid catering only to the rich...

I'm not saying it is the fault of one group of players. I'm saying it is the combination of content development, and the responses of the populace that is causing this contention.

I agree entirely with you that these things happens, I'm not denying them. The thing I'm against is people hyperboling the situation then putting the blame on others. You understand the situation quite clearly, I just wish more people would.

But I don't hate the raiders. It think this much should be obvious. I hate clear sellers and their RMT bot friends who are likely in collusion with them but I there is no way I can come up with and evidence for that. And I don't like people who hatred and contempt at newer players.

Yeah, tell me how we're suppose to believe that with your post history ?

[Exstal]

Yeah, tell me how we're suppose to believe that with your post history ?

She doesn't believe in anything anything she posted in the past. Her opinion has since changed.

[NyarukoW]

She doesn't believe in anything anything she posted in the past. Her opinion has since changed.

Go look at the post history. What part of opinion has changed? I am still asking that people should take the attitude of being more inclusive and not spew hatred towards newer players and do not treat them with contempt like the way clear sellers do. This hasn't changed.

And it all starts with people being rude and mean to new/newer players, starting with forcing people to skip cut scenes. And I've always said the speed run is neutral, but the speed runner is the problem, running roughshod over newer players. And as they progress to raid content etc., it is about being more inclusive of the newer players. If possible make the effort and time to help them along. Because this is an MMO, things work better when people play together.

Simple version:
Speed run is fine, speed runners are NOT.
Elite players are fine, elitists are NOT.
Raiders are fine, clear sellers are NOT.

Somehow people have a hard time separating out the two. I do NOT know why that is.

Too much time and effort is spent on hating newbie/newer player that does no good for anyone. The hyperbole is constant misrepresentation of the newer players, non-raiders, etc. calling them all lazy, lack initiative, want to be spoonfed, etc. etc. etc., which is all blatantly false. Be more inclusive of them, it is simple enlightened self interest.

[AlexionSkylark]

I'm kinda lost... what do the flair story means? what is flair? Lol.

[Krr]

Personally, I'm now confused as to why there is anything wrong with hating raiders. Does raiding make you part of an oppressed group? Do we need to start a #raidergate tag?

Here, I'll say it outright: I lead a raiding static. I don't associate with HC 'raiders' because the HC endgame community is full of the exact male toxicity and hypocrisy we've seen in this thread. There are dozens of groups like this and I've run with all of them, and if we weren't there to support the stragglers who enjoy the activity, but are left behind by the rat-racing HC community you would quite literally see the endgame population drop substantially.

[DoctorPepper]

I'm kinda lost... what do the flair story means? what is flair? Lol.

It's from the movie office space, it's a bit old now but definitely worth the watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-74Jo85ji9Q

Personally, I'm now confused as to why there is anything wrong with hating raiders. Does raiding make you part of an oppressed group? Do we need to start a #raidergate tag?

It's the generalization that all raiders are the same rude, obnoxious people that bothers people. If you want to use that type of argument then people could easily flip it around and ask what's wrong with hating new players who don't know the mechanics of the fight. Same shit, different side of the coin.

[Krr]

It's the generalization that all raiders are the same rude, obnoxious people that bothers people. If you want to use that type of argument then people could easily flip it around and ask what's wrong with hating new players who don't know the mechanics of the fight. Same shit, different side of the coin.

The only generalization I've seen is that raiders are unhelpful and exclusory. Which is true. Open up your local PF and get a wake-up call as to what "Raiding" is like outside of your small FC group.

[AlexionSkylark]

all raiders are the same rude, obnoxious people.

Maybe not ALL of them, but the vast majority... well... they are.

[DoctorPepper]

The only generalization I've seen is that raiders are unhelpful and exclusory. Which is true. Open up your local PF and get a wake-up call as to what "Raiding" is like outside of your small FC group.

Maybe not ALL of them, but the vast majority... well... they are.

These are the types of generalizations I'm talking about. Just because you guys don't see experienced raiders joining/making learning groups shouldn't flag them as unhelpful, exclusory, rude, or obnoxious. While I'll admit there are a lot of rude raiders, there are also a lot of rude non-raiders. There are also a lot of players in this game that try to leech content off of other players without learning it themselves. I've joined a lot party finder groups where people claim to be experienced (sometimes even the party leader) only to find out they have no idea what they are doing and just want the other people to carry them through it. Often it doesn't really bother me but I can understand why that would bother other people, some people only have a limited amount of time to play and want to spend their time experiencing things they haven't done yet. That doesn't give them any good reason to be rude however.

That being said, the best place to find help really is an FC. My FC has helped numerous people clear turn 5, extreme primals, etc. but we really don't go out of our way to help people we don't know who we will likely never speak to again. Most of the time, in my opinion, friends/FC are a lot more grateful for your help than the random people using party finder, it's like being in a family. Most of the time you get the kill in a party finder group and then never see/hear from those people again.

The fact is, neither of you know enough raiders to make the claim that all or even the majority of them are bad people. Your entire generalization is based off of the party finder and random people in DF groups which is only a small fraction of the people who play this game.

[Dwill]

The only generalization I've seen is that raiders are unhelpful and exclusory. Which is true. Open up your local PF and get a wake-up call as to what "Raiding" is like outside of your small FC group.

Maybe not ALL of them, but the vast majority... well... they are.

And on what data do you based these assumptions upon ? Anecdotal evidences and forum people cherry picking their experiences ? If so, then your statements are worthless and you're both just doing a generalization which makes you worse than these people you seem to dislike.