The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[Lord_Zlatan]

Being behind is not the problem. But waiting on a PF that never fills? You think people are insane or something? People have waited, do wait, and continue to wait and do other content while waiting. But to see that people with experience would rather sell clears for upwards of 60Mil instead of jumping into a learning party to help, or see all these farm parties that says "no noobs wanted", it is only expected that people should come here and protest.

Protest what though... nothing is going to change in the construct of game as we know it, so again you have 2 options. Wait in pf, or don't do it [yet].

For the record, I haven't cleared T6. Do you have an fc?

[Mutemutt]

Well, the real problem is that for many people that have already cleared that content and, as such, have no need to run it again, it's just more trouble than it's worth to join groups that likely won't make it ( or it's worth 10's of millions of gil; depends on who you ask). You can't really fault people for trying to enjoy what time they have playing the game. At the end of the day, these "no noobs wanted" farm parties and the OP are after the same thing: a sense of progress. There's just not much incentive to help random people struggling with old content.

[Welsper59]

a casual player wouldn't mind waiting until they make it so you can queue alone. a casual player wouldn't mind trying the instance once per week and maybe it taking 1 or more months to complete.

don't get me wrong, i am not trying to say anything bad. but 9/10 casual players are always behind the rest by like 1~6months.

Or in my case, more than a year (still haven't cleared any Coil turns)... but that's because I couldn't care less.

You really shouldn't generalize the casual player base like that though. Just because they're casual, it doesn't mean they don't want to see content at around the same pace if they can. Like in the case of the OP, at least there's effort being made, instead of just crying for nerfs or instant DF gratification. The only thing that he's lacking is the understanding of how endgame raiding can be designed. That being the devs can make things exclusive in the sense that you need to commit to static groups and schedule around that... or they can make it as easily accessible as possible (such as DF). In this case, it's both but with a temporary gate to it.

yeah. i've seen these ideas around. and would LOVE for something like that. i myself am not in the least bit skilled. and will always wait for end-game content to be outclassed and nerfed. but that's what a casual player does... wait and take things nice n slow n easy.


can't get to the final coil because players only want experience for the second coil? then wait till you can queue it alone. sure it's going to take more time. and it will be hard to get in with a decent group. but at that point in time you are in the same boat with just about everyone else in the queue. and if you keep trying it, but can't clear it. eventually you will have the experience you need to put an ad in the Party Finder for other experienced players.

casual players shouldn't care about how much time something takes.

Seems like you understand the latter part of what I said above already

[Kallera]

a casual player wouldn't mind waiting until they make it so you can queue alone. a casual player wouldn't mind trying the instance once per week and maybe it taking 1 or more months to complete.

don't get me wrong, i am not trying to say anything bad. but 9/10 casual players are always behind the rest by like 1~6months.

The thing is casual players do mind, and are not content with youtubing it. that is why there have been calls to introduce a coil plot version to enjoy the plot, and the raid/savage version can be for the loot/titles, respectively.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

The thing is casual players do mind, and are not content with youtubing it. that is why there have been calls to introduce a coil plot version to enjoy the plot, and the raid/savage version can be for the loot/titles, respectively.

yeah. i've seen these ideas around. and would LOVE for something like that. i myself am not in the least bit skilled. and will always wait for end-game content to be outclassed and nerfed. but that's what a casual player does... wait and take things nice n slow n easy.


can't get to the final coil because players only want experience for the second coil? then wait till you can queue it alone. sure it's going to take more time. and it will be hard to get in with a decent group. but at that point in time you are in the same boat with just about everyone else in the queue. and if you keep trying it, but can't clear it. eventually you will have the experience you need to put an ad in the Party Finder for other experienced players.

casual players shouldn't care about how much time something takes.

[Dhex]

End game is running away further as you post. If you have not cleared Turn 9 in a week or two don't expect to get into Final Coil of Bahamut for awhile.

Finding a learning environment just becomes more difficult as time progresses - and this community embraces that and reinforces it.

If you're not already at current endgame - you probably never will be.
Want to progress or given an environment to learn in? Get a static.
Want a static? Have gear and experience already!
Want experience? Well I guess wait until it's unlocked.
Can't find people now that it's unlocked? Well wait for a nerf.
Can't get people when it's nerfed? Casual you're not trying hard enough.

You can continue that cycle and keep people out of content - or you can help out. Free Companies that makes sure all their members are getting through the content they want to get through are more rare than you'd expect.

Personally; happy I have friends willing to let someone learn outside of their static groups. It's too bad FFXIV has had such a rigid raiding system for so long - but maybe they'll work on that with the expansion. As a Community - we could be a lot more helpful.

[Kyri]

I will agree I have a large group of friends who I would label "Very casual" that do fall into the criteria that you've mentioned here and do not take it very seriously, but of those players only a small handful whine about not being able to do things whereas the majority of them shrug it off and don't really care that they play so casually and enjoy time in other games too much to be very serious here. Sadly I think that small handful gives whats considered "casual" players a uncalled for reputation just as a small handful for content firsts players who push to beat content quickly give many nice people who strive to beat things quickly a bad reputation as well. Either way a few bad apples tend to ruin peoples opinions on both sides of the playing field as it were.

However I do feel like a large group of friends and acquaintances I spend time with do not fit in either "Elite status" or "casual" status and do strive to beat content just not as dedicated as some of us. It's these people I feel badly for. They are good players who could easily be farming with us if given one lucky break of a party to join the ranks of "farmable"

I too was one of these after leaving a static and being stuck on t7 longer then I would have liked. I knew the fight so well I could do it in my sleep but was constantly in a position where friends who would have liked to help me and knew I could beat it had once a week locks to a static and I found myself teaching many people tricks to beat the fights but never in a group that could quite make it. Luckily a spot opened up in a friends group and sure enough I made less mistakes in that group then some of their own members due to my dedication to beating the fight.

With that being said it is very frustrating to have a patch come out. Some will decide to be first to beat fights and dedicate to that. Some decide to take advantage of new crafting items and make a large chunk of coin while the going is good. Neither of these is the wrong choice, but your going to a: make less gil as everyone can make the items that sold high or b be stuck with a duty finder that is unforgiving to your choice in not learning a fight as soon as it came out.

All im trying to say is a lot of the people here are putting effort into beating content and will beat it if just given that one break by people like us. That one step will give you someone who will try to repay you where they can and a new friend. It will also give them the strive to continue trying rather then give up and make the world a better place for everyone in the end. Please do not assume that everyone stuck on content does not put forth energy and willpower to beating them. Some people stuck might have tried harder then you did, and just never got that lucky break.

[Remus]

See guys? This is why WoW don't "really" have issues like this, they pretty much a put a casual version of the raid for people to do and a hardcore version for the best gear. win win both casuals and hardcores are happy. With WoW they put gear in the casual one but it isn't as good as the one you would get from the ultra hard mode version of it. Doesn't leave anyone out and lets everyone enjoy said content in some form. SE needs to learn this, you shouldn't try cater to different groups of people but alter said content for different people.

They say coil is made for the hardcores, ok i get that now then you have the other content which people say is for casual, lets compare the 2. Who actually has more content to do? You have to remember even if you are hardcore you are still doing casual content+hardcore content meaning getting more than what others get. What this leads to is people finding it unfair they are unable to do the content due to it being too hardcore. I have said countless times SE really needs to make a casual version of coil and a hardcore version to cater to all audiences and not just one because it leads to this. Give the hardcores the better gear and the casual one not as great so for example, casual coil gives 130 and hardcore coil gives 135 for gear and 140 weapon. This will still be something what hardcore raiders can aim for and no one would really be left out. WoW learned from its previous mistakes (kinda), SE on the over hand are very stubborn. They think they are doing what's right but they are not.

Some people say "oh create your own static!" Makes sense but i have tried already didn't work out because no one wants to do coil around the time i and other people are available. Everyone pays the same subscription cost but in theory hardcores are the ones who actually get more content of the game than casuals.

When you are casual all it means is you can't dedicated as much time as someone who is hardcore and take the game more slowly and enjoy the game for what it is for, BUT this doesn't mean they won't want to do coil for example and SE needs to learn this. Also SE really need to figure out how to nerf properly, adding Echo on coil doesn't nerf it all it does is make you stronger thats it. Nerfing would make it easier for the person but from look of things its not working.

You rarely see SE say "We made these dungeons for the CASUAL players" but instead say "We make this new content to bring new stuff for the PLAYERS" You see this? It means they dont just make it for casuals but everyone.

[KarstenS]

See guys? This is why WoW don't "really" have issues like this, they pretty much a put a casual version of the raid for people to do and a hardcore version for the best gear. win win both casuals and hardcores are happy.

Wouldn't be that a nice solution?

A casual version of coil for the casuals

AND, on the other side

A coil like difficult version of CT for the others.

More content for everybody.

[Fornix]

Wouldn't be that a nice solution?

A casual version of coil for the casuals

AND, on the other side

A coil like difficult version of CT for the others.

More content for everybody.

Haven't played WoW since early Cataclysm. However, back then WoW just as well had these issues. Even with a hard mode raid and regular mode raid, people still failed to find groups for the normal modes. Based on gearscore they'd quickly be kicked, etc. Many claimed the fights were too hard in the normal mode. Etc.

I've never experienced the raid finder raids, so perhaps that those are a pushover with a difficulty of ST/CT runs here. Can't say.