The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[NyarukoW]

... You lump all raiders into this run selling player chastising group ...

I don't lump raiders with clear sellers. It is the clear sellers themselves that come here and do that. They are proud of it too. You have the problem of separating them out. Don't play devil's advocate for the clear sellers, that is a first step to shedding that attitude.

I don't know if I can can make more clear see in this thread, and that was not the first time I've said it:

...
Speed run is fine, speed runners are NOT.
Elite players are fine, elitists are NOT.
Raiders are fine, clear sellers are NOT.
...

[Tiggy]

I don't lump raiders with clear sellers. It is the clear sellers themselves that come here and do that. They are proud of it too. You have the problem of separating them out.

I don't know if I can can make more clear see in this thread, and that was not the first time I've said it:

You have no legs to stand on for such a blatant lie. Just on this last page you attributed an attitude from BobtheBlackMage to me. You're literally taking Bob's attitude and acting like I have and to that you said and I quote

For starters, you can start with shedding the shameless clear seller attitude like this:

How do you propose I shed an attitude I never had? This is a prime example of you applying the negatives of one person to others who never displayed those attributes. This is why I say you lump as all together. This is why you're getting flat out insulting.

[NyarukoW]

You've done it to me just in the last few posts. You have no legs to stand on for such a blatant lie.

Show me a post where I said you are a clear seller? You won't find it. But you do like to play devil's advocate for them.

[Tiggy]

Show me a post where I said you are a clear seller? You won't find it. But you do like to play devil's advocate for them.

Please look up at my edit.

*edit* screw it I'll add it here too.

For starters, you can start with shedding the shameless clear seller attitude like this:

For those that don't want to look back this is the "shameless clear seller attitude" that I apparently displayed.

If someone is willing to pay as an incentive to take them through content, I'm willing to make the exchange.

I guess my name randomly changes to BobtheBlackMage for the sake of Nyaruko's arguement.

How do you propose I shed an attitude I never had? This is a prime example of you applying the negatives of one person to others who never displayed those attributes. This is why I say you lump as all together. This is why you're getting flat out insulting. Thank you for giving me such a prime example, and so recently in the thread too!

[NyarukoW]

...How do you propose I shed an attitude I never had? ...

You sure you never had that attitude?

....
and used THIS quote (by a completely different player):

If someone is willing to pay as an incentive to take them through content, I'm willing to make the exchange.

...to say they are a shameless clear seller. Congratulations

...
While I've never been a part of a sold run I definitely understand where they come from. ... If they put a price on their time and someone is willing to pay it then it's non of your business what so ever..

The two statements sure look almost identical. The only difference is you have not done clear sell.

[Tiggy]

The two statements sure look almost identical. The only difference is you have not done clear sell.

I don't specifically support run sellers and even in that quote I merely say that I understand where they come from not that I support them. There is a very specific difference. The difference is I don't care how other people spend there time and I don't intend to tell them the right and wrong way to do it. I have whats called empathy for my fellow man. I attempt to understand them and their motivations. However you seem perfectly fine telling people what is and isn't an acceptable way to play without understanding them at all. To me you are more disgusting than those run sellers.

Way to completely avoid the fact that you blatantly attributed the quote of someone else to me. You failed and like usual you gleefully ignore it. You even called me out to prove and not only did I do so but another person did as well.

More nonsensical strawman. Not everyone is a clear seller, that much is obvious.

You keep telling people they produce straw men but they aren't. They are responding to your rhetoric. Rhetoric that clearly assumes all raiders are run sellers. You yourself falsely attributed me as such as we just pointed out to you so you can't even sit there and act like you aren't making broad generalizations. It even took you like 15 minutes or so just to find a weak quote well after the moment where you accused me. You are getting these arguments against you because of your own personal rhetoric. Stop acting like you have no hand in this.

[Ghishlain]

The two statements sure look almost identical. The only difference is you have not done clear sell.

So, someone who sells a clear is THE EXACT SAME PERSON as someone who can UNDERSTAND if someone would want to sell clears, but haven't sold it themselves.

I do NOT equate raiders as clear sellers ever.

Clearly. That or you lack context and are denser than a black hole.

Again.

-Stop broadly generalizing all of the "other side" as the same coin. This isn't a black and white argument, there are two points and every single possible shade of grey in between.

Instead of blaming all the raiders in an over arching category of "clear selling", learn to EMPATHIZE with the situation. While it is commendable what you want to do, it's not as simple as taking every Tom, Dick, and Harry into T6 and beating it for them. They don't learn anything from doing that, nor would they have the possible capability to do that.

-There's a group of players who will never be competent enough to clear Coil effectively (you can see that on how limiting some players are in Syrcus Tower).

You can bring a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink it. Some players, no matter how hard we try, will be never able to see T5 and on cleared. That's what story line Coil is for - so they can enjoy the story without the high difficulty.

I am not wasting my precious time on a "random" player who is clearly incapable of beating Coil. Yet I will take the time to help someone I respect and looking for a hand and have proven capable via other trials.

[NyarukoW]

So, someone who sells a clear is THE EXACT SAME PERSON as someone who can UNDERSTAND if someone would want to sell clears, but haven't sold it themselves.

And they would gladly play devil's advocate for the clear sellers and never chastise them. Well then, what is the practical difference on the forums here? You are either for or against clear sells. There is no wishy-washy weaselly middle ground there.

-Stop broadly generalizing all of the "other side" as the same coin. This isn't a black and white argument, there are two points and every single possible shade of grey in between.
.

While it is NOT all black and white, but there is nothing "broadly generalizing" when specific facts show that PF learning parties stay unfilled for hours on end and simultaneously clear sellers are advertising 24/7 on the PF, i.e. someone with clear experience is sitting there on the PF but could not be bothered to lift a finger. And at the same time as specifically has been experienced and presented, the OP like many others are having difficulty finding, creating, or maintaining a static.

Instead of blaming all the raiders....

I do NOT lump raiders and clear sellers together, and I do not blame raiders in any sort of "broadly generalizing" way, but if they are going to be apathetic then they are not helping. And if they are not going to help, the least they can do is avoid doing less than nothing, like making the repeated false accusations about how the newer players, newbies, or anyone else less fortunate are somehow lazy, lack initiative, want to be spoonfed, etc. etc. etc. I see that way too much on these forums.