The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[Synestr]

I still enjoy t5, I just do not enjoy wiping on the same thing without progression.

This puts it plainly enough for me. If there is no progression in the group then they aren't learning. Could lead to why people leave after 3 or so wipes. Wiping is expected in learning/prog groups, but if said group keeps wiping at blighted because they haven't learned to stop everything at 69/68% to avoid a one shot, then time is being wasted. I am currently looking for a static as I would like to progress in SCoB. I am in europe so my times are a little off from the NA ones, so that makes it a bit more of a challenge for me. Hit me up anytime!

[Animarelic]

The 8-man coil raids were designed for people who can invest in Skill-gated challenges for gear. Time-gated Tomes and 24-man raids were designed for people to get the same level of gear without the commitment. Seems like the issue is Time-gated players want to do Skill-Gated challenges and are upset because they can't.

I don't understand the argument here, Do you want the content dumbed down more with higher Echo so you can burn through it and still be bored? or Do you want the Skill-gated players to carry you through it? The problem I see is that no matter how much SE bends to give "Casuals" content they will just run through it in hours and claim boredom. If they make it slightly challenging it "casuals" will complain about the time to adjust to the difficulty example: Threads about Sas HM.

Face of Fact: This game will never make enough soft content to keep anyone satisfied because a games longevity is determinant on it's level of difficulty.

[Vhailor]

So, my question for the community is... Is that it, then? If you can't go into Coil 3 nights or more a week, you're shut out? Nobody understands the meaning of "learning party" anymore, and we're thrown to the side, unable to do the content cuz lack of will? do ALL tanks have it so easily to the point that not a single one is still chasing content? what is happening? Do we have any hope to clear SCoB, or our only choice is to wait for 2.5 and go in there on the DF?

This is a pretty sad reality, if there are no solutions...

In short, until SE makes a few adjustments, yes - this is how it's going to be.

The problem with FFXIV's end-game situation centers around two key issues, in my estimation.

Firstly, there's the issue of fights requiring exactly 8 people. This makes finding a group more difficult, in my experience, because groups tend to size themselves at "exactly" 8 - so even if you're inclined to find a static, it's far easier said than done. Maintaining a group of precisely 8 people who can keep schedules aligned and such is very challenging, nigh impossible in many cases. Now it is certainly an option to replace a member or two via PF if someone's absent, which makes the situation a bit easier, but this can frequently be a stressful experience (personalities not meshing, a replacement leaves, etc.). Particularly for those who don't play every night of the week, this is a more significant barrier than for a hardcore player.

Secondly, and far more damaging, is the "team jump rope" type of setup for fights. If a single person goes down, then failure is almost always an immediate result. This is in stark contrast to FFXI, where victory despite deaths was routine. It also has the nasty side effect of turning players against each other, which makes PF a far more toxic environment than it otherwise would be. Obviously this sort of design makes end-game fights more "challenging" for those with time (though it's still just extended memorization), but it ruins a lot of the content for others. It's why I've consistently been opposed to SE's entire philosophy in regards to difficulty in ARR. This of course isn't intended as a tirade against those who want a challenge - but more difficult gameplay is best suited for single-player titles or competitive multiplayer, not cooperative MMOs (unless it's self-imposed challenge).

So, I sympathize with your plight, but I wouldn't expect any fundamental changes unless SE significantly addresses the above problems (which are also linked, obviously). It's one of the main reasons I have long since retired from ARR, and it's also a central source of frustration for several of my friends who were active in FFXI's end-game. Hopefully this situation is remedied in Heavensward, but I have my doubts.

PS - I want to make clear that the main problems I see with XIV's end-game have nothing to do with the difficulty levels (though I think they're a smaller issue). The concern I have is with how the difficulty is created. The challenging part of an MMO in 2014, in my mind, should be on how well you can play your character - not how well you can find 7 other people who can also play theirs. Right now, the latter is vastly more difficult than any other component of an end-game raid. SE needs to adjust that somehow for the end-game situation to work.

[Animarelic]

Firstly, there's the issue of fights requiring exactly 8 people. This makes finding a group more difficult, in my experience, because groups tend to size themselves at "exactly" 8 - so even if you're inclined to find a static, it's far easier said than done. Maintaining a group of precisely 8 people who can keep schedules aligned and such is very challenging, nigh impossible in many cases.

This is one of the ONLY MMO games where endgame is possible with 8 players and people still can't manage that? I can't blame SE on that one, these issues are based on the server you choose, some servers are severely time zone oriented and Your social activity like having friends you actively party with or if you have a negative rep. I think all of this can be fixed if ppl use the FF social sites & or spend a bit of cash and Xfer to somewhere more compatible.

TLDR; there is allegedly 2 +Mil ppl subscribed if you can't find 8 to mesh with maybe it's you.

[Edli]

I too think this might be a served issue. Never had a problem finding learning parties. The only fight which was scarce on learning pt before patch has been t9.

[Kyri]

Made worse by the fact no ones going to help you beat it because they would rather sell you the win for a ridiculous price. I do wish SE would find a way to help fix that or make win selling a suspendable offense

[Ellatrix]

Made worse by the fact no ones going to help you beat it because they would rather sell you the win for a ridiculous price. I do wish SE would find a way to help fix that or make win selling a suspendable offense

You want people to carry you, and in the same sentence, you insult those same people and say they should be banned. Maybe now you know why I don't want to help you.

Coil isn't intended to be learned in one lockout. If you really can't spend 3hrs x 3days/week then raiding isn't for you, since that's basically the bare minimum. That really isn't much time at all and is sufficient to make progress every week if you spend the time well.

[Kyri]

You want people to carry you, and in the same sentence, you insult those same people and say they should be banned. Maybe now you know why I don't want to help you.

.

Sorry, I am a endgamer. With that being said your point is moot to me. I don't need your help, I make my own way and help the people who need things done. What im stating is 1mil to 30 mil for a clear pt that's being charged is ridiculous in it's own right.

No ones carrying me so when I say that people should help people(and some peoples ideas on "carry" are bordering ridiculous) I feel my time working to beat all content on multiple characters on a daily basis gives me the right to state that selling wins, though not something I white knight and hate on for, should indeed be bannable by the fact that everyone who gets to the point it's on farm refuses to help anyone else without getting paid, then yes, that's a bad system that should have stricter policies put into place to avoid it from happening. In my opinion of course. Sorry if this cuts down on your personal bank but there's many other ways to make gil.

***On a further note looking at party finder right now, I see 4 Fc's selling wins, 2 people selling crafting services and 5 pts for various EG content "ONLY JOIN IF YOUR FARM STATUS OR ILL KICK"
In the odd times I see learning pt's out there and am in a "Let's help someone get a win" mood that I normally am at least once a day they never fill up because people refuse to help where they can charge a ridiculous sum of gil and make people who are likely good at the fight but unlucky to find a pt that can quite make it look bad, feel bad and so called, "carried". In my opinion, though it might differ from yours, yes.. this is a problem.**

[Ellatrix]

stuff

Ok, so by your estimation, asking a teacher to give me an A because I feel like it and I don't want to do homework is a valid approach. Or, telling my boss I should still get paid even though I just half-assed my last project is fine!

Endgame progress is earned, not given. This is also an MMO, so if you fail at properly networking with others, you're not going to get anywhere that requires more than 0 skill to complete.

[Kyri]

Ok, so by your estimation, asking a teacher to give me an A because I feel like it and I don't want to do homework is a valid approach. Or, telling my boss I should still get paid even though I just half-assed my last project is fine!

Endgame progress is earned, not given. This is also an MMO, so if you fail at properly networking with others, you're not going to get anywhere that requires more than 0 skill to complete.

Hardly. Im saying refusing to help people learn without getting paid a ridiculous price for something many of them are able to beat and just cant get a feasible party of 7 other people to beat it with because someone would rather see them fail so they can cash in a paycheck should have repercussions. If there wasn't -such- a large gap between these two sides to a point people are quitting, it wouldn't be a problem but us small chunk of endgamers able to clear all the content aren't putting the majority of the money into SE's pocket, those casual people who -want- to learn and play are by far the larger chunk of gil for the company. In any case I didn't come here to argue with a Merc about my opinion who obviously would rather see people fail then teach them. With that being said
I end my agruement with:


Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Maimonides