The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[Andevom]

I'm just gonna roll with what Zumi just said, since it was the nicest thing I've read in the past several pages of this increasingly vitriolic thread.

[Kallera]

Nyaruko should stop. He's not doing anyone any favors by cherry picking other people's arguments and assuming that is all that people are talking about. Is the OP still looking at this thread?(if so, any update?)

[DoctorPepper]

No matter what you guys say, no matter how many posts you quote. NyarukoW will reject reality and substitute it with their own.

You guys will not make any progress arguing with this person, I assure you, I've been there. They will always turn to the "I didn't say this" or "I shouldn't have to say this" argument because they have no actual evidence for any of the claims that they make. To them they are simply right and that is that. You should not waste your time with them since it is simply that, a waste of your time.

[Ghishlain]

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

How about innocent until proven guilty? Clearly, you believe all raiders are guilty of being clear sellers by association, as proven by:

And they would gladly play devil's advocate for the clear sellers and never chastise them. Well then, what is the practical difference on the forums here? You are either for or against clear sells.

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You haven't shown that every server does not have a clear seller advertising.

And it they are not advertising on the PF, they are advertising via shouts in Mor Dhona or where ever else they like.

I was only refuting your one point:

clear sellers are advertising 24/7 on the PF

Clearly, you are wrong on this very one point in this discussion. CLEARLY WRONG. *Waggles finger then crosses arms*

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And some of them can be obscured by the scroll bar.

Already answered, but clearly you don't read:

Names are hidden as per forum rules. Does it change the actual information of PF? Nope. Also, as you can tell, the last two entries of the PF are the exact same as the first two entries of second screen shot. Clearly a continuation - but you'll find a way to refute this since I don't have the means to make the PF window larger.

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No matter what you guys say, no matter how many posts you quote. NyarukoW will reject reality and substitute it with their own.

You guys will not make any progress arguing with this person, I assure you, I've been there. They will always turn to the "I didn't say this" or "I shouldn't have to say this" argument because they have no actual evidence for any of the claims that they make. To them they are simply right and that is that. You should not waste your time with them since it is simply that, a waste of your time.

Oh, I know. In some respects, this is quite a nice exercise of patience for me, good for when I deal with customers.

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Ghishlain, I could kiss you right now.

You don't want to do that, I'm just a dirty raider after all

[Exstal]

You can't report people for things if they haven't broken any rules. Even if NyarukoW is clearly wrong in most of her claims, it's still within the forum rules.

[Exstal]

OP did start a linkshell for this. It was posted on the Behemoth server thread.

[AlexionSkylark]

So, I've been off the thread for a while, glad to see the discussion and debate going on, hahah.

So, the main reason I created this thread was because I was flabbergasted about how people in PF would quit a learning group that has steadily progressed from wiping in the first 20 seconds of the fight to getting steadily to more than 50 or 40%... thinking the next group (who WILL be fresh) will be a better one. Like someone said on page 31 (or was it 32? so many pages haha), there's no ammount of videos and written guides that can make up for having "in loco" experience on a fight. And if you join a learning party on PF, it's quite obvious and expected that at least half of the people there never set foot on the fight, and WILL mess up stuff while they are understanding the fight in reality. That is EXPECTED. However, people expect a clear in 2, 3 wipes tops. And while it's completely impossible to go from newbie to veteran in 3 wipes, no matter how many videos ppl watched, people still expect that from learning parties, and still go away calling people noobs and such. And my point is... THAT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. I REALLY doubt that those experienced people killed Rafflesia in 3 wipes with their statics.

Again, my point was less about the "why nobody joins my learning group" and more about "why people join a learning group and leave because it wasn't a farm?"

That being said, here's an update: I formed a little community on Behemoth, the "Endgame Brotherhood". It's comprised of a whatsapp group, a facebook group, and a Linkshell. Unfortunately Real Life kept me away from the game a bit (Last week was my anniversary with my GF, also starting a new theatre course), but I lurked in the shadows there and noticed several people got their Primal Ex and T5 clears through it, and it made me really happy to know I'm making a difference for others (tho I'm still stucked in T6 hahahah... but that comes with being a casual, I suppose).

Anyhow... carry on. This discussion is bringing a lot of viewpoints and maybe a better solution will come out of this... Maybe we can even get a red post on the matter, if this gets enough attention? hahahah.

[Aylis]

That being said, here's an update: I formed a little community on Behemoth, the "Endgame Brotherhood". It's comprised of a whatsapp group, a facebook group, and a Linkshell. .

That's amazing! I'm happy to hear things are working out well for you in your new group! ^o^

[Ghishlain]

~Snip~

Glad to hear your group is going well I hope for its continued success~

Again, my point was less about the "why nobody joins my learning group" and more about "why people join a learning group and leave because it wasn't a farm?"

In my opinion, I feel this is in part because the bulk of the game is tuned for a much more casual front. Once players are given the stonewall known as Coil, they give up before they seriously try. Many dungeon and storyline encounters in this game are designed with a casual audience in mind, and can be completed within three wipes even if completed blind, normally.

When people try to apply that same mentality to high tier content such as Coil (and to an extent, EX Primals), they're gonna get sorely disappointed. Unfortunately for us, there is little you can do to fix that kind of mentality. It's just something those players will have to adjust themselves. Some will adapt, others will not - you just want to keep those that are willing to learn close so all of you can continue to grow as players.

What you can do on that front is to just encourage people to keep trying, and know when to cut off the current spree of wipes to prevent morale from hitting rock bottom too hard. A fresh mind combined with the experience garnered from the night before can make the run progress in leaps in bounds versus pounding your head into the content over and over for hours upon end.

[Sessurea]

Again, my point was less about the "why nobody joins my learning group" and more about "why people join a learning group and leave because it wasn't a farm?"

The amount of idiots who joined our coil learning/going for kill groups this week was astounding. get this, the PF was worded as follows " T8. Going for Kill. Have full exp. " Guy no 20 joins: "farm?" We just stopped being civil and just insta kicked them. Reading stronk it seems.