Ninja damage insane over monk

[Saseal]

Part of the issue with Monks and Dragoons I've seen in the open world is they rarely bother to use their stuns to set up positional attacks. At any rate, few players are at 50, and I'm personally more concerned with how the job handles at level 50 in dungeons. Rather than what happens with mobs in the open world.

The majority I ever see of ninjas in lvl 50 dungeons and raids are of that of receiving shit tons of damage and dropping faster than specifically loldrgs/lolmnks :\
I'll sometimes come across one or two that don't seem to have this affliction of suicidal tendencies, but not often...

Maybe that's the trade off >_> High damage output - but high damage input, too....

For the OP;
Pretty much what everyone probably already mentioned....
ForDRG/MNK, you can't really compare if fighting an open world monster that isn't being tanked - because of positionals. All the additional damage is based on standing behind or beside the monster ---- and you can't really do that as a MNK/DRG unless the mob is A.) stunned, B.) stuck in casting position for a few moments (and you were quick enough to move to get more than a hit or two in).
But for MNK... granted you'll get those kinds of aforementioned moments to start setting up, but then the rotation/greased lightning is messed up again when the monster rotates itself. MNK is all about building that greased lightning, as they're more for building up their damage output in hitting GL III.
DRG I have little experience with, so I can't say much - but as far as I know, they're moreso made for spike damage with positionals. I don't think they have a buildup like MNK's greased lightning to go through to hit their max damage output/cieling.

NIN just... kinda does whatever the hell it wants (not speaking of mudras), where ever the hell it wants without any of the above mentioned challenges (exception is messing up a mudra, I guess).

[Warlyx]

Monks need 3 stacks /positionals attacks to start doing their max dmg, NIN has incredible burst will all CDS UP , just SATA is 500 (400) potency and ninjutsu can burst 1 mob with easy.

but is like saying a BLM with Astral Fire 3 , and swiftacst / ragings strikes is insane over monk....yeah ....nothing can touch triple fire...but u dont see BLM nerfed because that ....because isnt sustainable...

the dmg of monk on bosses is TOP , and will be always , nin has more utility and less positional attacks , i doubt MNK are in danger :P

[roninoftagrm]

dont forgot the ninjutsu, while a 20s cd skill is about on par with fire 3, it can be used twice every 90s(?) on top of the 4 others(essentially 5 every 90s), the 2 hiding attacks are one offs unless you can hide multiple times in a single fight, ie a 7.5s insta combo burst...sorta.

[Leonus]

People are overreacting to nin. I'm sure a lot of testing was done damage wise in comparison to mnk. If anything, drg should be brought up damage wise in comparison to where mnk is.

I will say a very good nin will also have really good dps in long fights and it might take longer to catch a nin in damage over a long fight than a drg for a mnk.

I see it like this, drg has really high burst damage, mnk has really high sustained damage. Nin is in the middle.

[SpecialKK]

People are overreacting to nin. I'm sure a lot of testing was done damage wise in comparison to mnk. If anything, drg should be brought up damage wise in comparison to where mnk is.

I will say a very good nin will also have really good dps in long fights and it might take longer to catch a nin in damage over a long fight than a drg for a mnk.

I see it like this, drg has really high burst damage, mnk has really high sustained damage. Nin is in the middle.

I'm thinking (more hoping) DRG will get a buff in 3.0

Right now, MNK is tops against single-target boss fights that doesn't have a lot of downtime. They should be fine in the long run even with NIN.

But, based on prelim comments about NINs, their single-target boss damage, though they may not be able to surpass MNK, is still very close to it. Yet, they appear to have better "burst" damage than MNKs. Meanwhile, DRGs appears to lose out against both on single-target and their burst damage shines on quick "adds" kills (since they have less of a timer with their burst ability than NIN).

Basically, this is how they appear to be shaping up right now:

Single Target with no/little downtime: MNK > NIN > DRG
ST with downtime (enough for MNK to lose GL): NIN > DRG > MNK
Frequent Burst skills: DRG > NIN > MNK
Positional requirements (in terms of ease): NIN > DRG > MNK

Just looking at those four criteria, you see that NIN is never last. MNK has the best ST dmg in exchange for their difficult positional requirements. They either rate good or really good without drawbacks. And here's a fifth category that, IMO ultimately swings the favor to NIN over DRG...

Utility

A MNK can Silence
A DRG can Stun
A NIN can Stun, Silence, AND refresh TP for a party member

Given the versatility of DPS they bring to the table, less positional requirements, and the utility they bring to the table...you just can't beat that skill set. And since groups will likely only bring two melee DPS to most fights, why wouldn't you bring MNK and NIN?

[iMark521]

A MNK can also stun :P

I'll aways be a DRG lover, but I can't wait to get my NIN to 50.

[Alphras]

Utility

A MNK can Silence
A DRG can Stun
A NIN can Stun, Silence, AND refresh TP for a party member

Some additions:

MNK has mantra
DRG increases BRD damage
NIN increases party damage by 10% for 10s every minute

Edit: MNK also has a permanent INT debuff (whoever cares).

[melflomil]

Some additions:

MNK has mantra
DRG increases BRD damage
NIN increases party damage by 10% for 10s every minute

Edit: MNK also has a permanent INT debuff (whoever cares).

I thought Dragon kicks put a Blunt resistance down and INT resistance down by 10%?
So a mnk can benefit casters, Dragoons benift bard and WAR can benefit NiN?
So an ideal 8 man group would be

WAR
WHM
SCH
BRD
DRG
MNK
SMN/BLM
NIN

[whiskeybravo]

I thought Dragon kicks put a Blunt resistance down and INT resistance down by 10%?
So a mnk can benefit casters, Dragoons benift bard and WAR can benefit NiN?
So an ideal 8 man group would be

WAR
WHM
SCH
BRD
DRG
MNK
SMN/BLM
NIN

DK affects INT damage dealt by target (like large magic based AOE damage from bosses) not a magic resistance down like Foe's Requiem.

I do like the synergy between WAR and NIN though, if war maintains storm's eye then NIN can use their higher potency combo. Then pop Goad on them to help with that overpower spam.

[Rahaya]

Utility

A MNK can Silence
A DRG can Stun
A NIN can Stun, Silence, AND refresh TP for a party member

Given the versatility of DPS they bring to the table, less positional requirements, and the utility they bring to the table...you just can't beat that skill set. And since groups will likely only bring two melee DPS to most fights, why wouldn't you bring MNK and NIN?

Mnk can stun (twice with a good Shoulder Tackle) AND silence as I fondly remember solo silencing ADS back in the day and you have Steel Peak.

That's the main problem with these comparison posts, imo. People are always forgetting about or dismissing ALL points of the DRG and MNK. DRG still seems to be the better AOE dps, for example.