Again, Relic Nexus will have barely no use...

[Coatl]

You can't even get the weapon unless you beat t10. And even then you have a 1/8 chance of getting it if everyone wants it.

Coil gear will always have the lead with the relic line. This is to be expected.

[silentwindfr]

You can't even get the weapon unless you beat t10. And even then you have a 1/8 chance of getting it if everyone wants it.

Coil gear will always have the lead with the relic line. This is to be expected.

no i'm sorry that mustn't be expected, the time you need to spend for upgrade a relic is far more important than any time spend in dungeon or raid... the raider simply can't accept that them precious raid don't drop the best gears around! i'm sorry but the relic must be the best weapon of the game, since it ask soo much time at the release of ARR yes it was short to do the relic, now it's painfull, nothing explain why it wasn't eased more than this or at least make it the best weapon of the game !

right now for get a weapon i110 you only need 1300 soldiery (50 per dungeon expert) 26 dungeon in total (without count the roulette bonus you can get there and there.) 1 sand and one unidentified allagan tomestone that can be easily farmed in ST (while getting soldiery).... look at what you must do for get the relic i110....

i will say it one more time: the Relic must be the best weapon around!

[MasamuneBranford]

i will say it one more time: the Relic must be the best weapon around!

In all fairness - relic caps at 115 now with nexus and is better than your typical item level 115 (similar to novus being better than the soldiery 110 weapon). In 2.4, the only way you're going to get a weapon that is better than 110 over the next three months is by being able to clear T10 (correct me if I'm wrong). So people with nexus are going to have a better weapon than anyone who can't beat T10 (which will likely be 90-95% of the player population).

[RiceisNice]

...

It shouldn't be the best if it doesn't require you to tackle the highest tier of content (Coil). Though on the same end, it shouldn't be blown out of the water by handing in a piece of rock (which may or may not have any value, according to Garlond Ironworks) to a couple of schmucks...which seriously irks me with all the lore background behind the relic weapons.


Either that, or add some aesthetic value to it that justifies more than just glamour...why cant my bard use The Artemis Bow as a frigging harp (as told by Gerlot himself, the bow was used as a instrument and a weapon by Gilbert, the first of the Godsbow), but instead I sheathe it then take out a generic wooden harp? Even my washed up Bard NPC uses his bow as a harp!

...but getting back on track, they could have coil be an objective to finish a relic step and make it BiS...something like (and stay with me here, WoW's done this before to some extent) getting x20 Unobtainium from second coil bosses (which are RNG quest drops, but I'm not sure if SE's quest mechanics even allow this), then defeat Nael Deusn Darnus as the final step (which would've been Nexus, using it as an example anyway).

In all fairness - relic caps at 115 now with nexus and is better than your typical item level 115 (similar to novus being better than the soldiery 110 weapon). In 2.4, the only way you're going to get a weapon that is better than 110 over the next three months is by being able to clear T10 (correct me if I'm wrong). So people with nexus are going to have a better weapon than anyone who can't beat T10 (which will likely be 90-95% of the player population).

If we're gonna talk semantics, then sure, that'd apply for some classes. But for ones who already have arguably optimized stats on their unweathered weapon (such as BLM with SS and acc) really aren't getting much from their novus, while other classes like BRD (I'm struggling to be accuracy capped with an unweathered rosenburger), I welcome my novus for accuracy melds. In HA comparison, my bow would hardly be *that* much better than the HA one since its meeting my accuracy requirements and boosting a nice det... at least not that much better I'd justify the time sink from Atma alone (which is now debatable, but hey I finished my atma pre-2.4).

I'm probably not gonna get my ironworks weapon because the stats on it are pretty bad, at least not as my first piece; I'd fall far too low below accuracy cap to justify the extra dex and weapon damage.

[silentwindfr]

It shouldn't be the best if it doesn't require you to tackle the highest tier of content (Coil)...

that the point where we disagree, the raid must be one of the content of the game, not the only one best content. other point, the game must reward you for the time spend for get something. when we compare the time needed for get the relic nexus today, sorry, but is not fair that this weapon was not better than the one from BC 2 when it did come out. i don't say that it must be the best at the start of the tier, but at mid time of the tier, it must be the best weapon of the game.

and i want to ask, do you do raid because it give the best stuff or because you want to challenge hard content? because if the only reason the raider do raid is for get the best shinies around... like we say in france: "c'est comme donner des truffes a un cochon." i let you find what it means.

[RiceisNice]

t..

My french is only limited to culinary terms...something with feeding truffles to pigs (which dig for truffles). What I suggested is trying to find the best of both worlds; people want their gear to be the best by experiencing raid content, some people (me included) don't believe that you should get gear without experiencing all of the content.

The way it was before, Nexus could be done without ever stepping into coil. The fact that coil itself is so exclusive with the heavy emphasis on mechanics and lock outs, it really doesn't help the average player. Though Nexus being BiS at that point wasn't worth a damn considering HA was there for months before Nexus came by; at that point I didn't really care that it was the best gear in the game (especially when the difference was 5-7 secondary stats)

I think it's worth pointing out that you would need an item you can only get from Final Coil to get the Poe weapons ATM. so you can;t "just buy" them from a vendor

And this is why I'm not that concerned with nexus being outdated. But introducing CT3 and allowing it to drop those tomes would only compound onto that. By that time, we'd have a repeat of Novus; you can't realistically justify the timesink to get up to nexus then do the next step other than for glamour. Though this all falls into SE not being able to find a middle ground for any of this.

[silentwindfr]

snips

the trouble is FF14 is not resumed to coil! actually Coil is only a sub quest, is not even important to the main story, it will not affect it. it's a challenge for the people wanting to have big group challenge. don't get me wrong i can understand this and respect this. if it's done for face hard challenge... but most of the raider (and i know i will have a lot of enemy) do it only for get shinies! if they don't have shinies they don't have any interest to do this.
if them shinies are not the best that can allows them to feel more important than people that do don't it... it don't worth them time. it's only a bragging rights, but a very bad one. i regret the time where get into the raid was more about beat it and face hard challenge.
the bragging rights was to get the skin that can only be obtain there. the trouble, is now the raider, want too to have the best gears reserved to them... it did result to a reduction to all the other content of the game. worst i was shocked by yoshida saying that create hard content can't be done for 4 player... really? i'm sorry content can be hard if they take the time to offer challenge that really test the capacity of the player. (an i'm talking of all the capacity not only repeat a pattern)

anyway, what i try to say and i don't think it was your goal, but i feel it's a bit arrogant your way to say it. for you only people that do "hard" content can deserve to be rewarded... do that means that your gaming time is more important and deserve more than the one that will spend weeks and months to upgrade him relic? do that means that him dedication don't deserve the same reward than you that dedicate your time to face coil? and why? because he don't do 8 people dungeon?

at least, let's agree that we disagree on this. because for me any form of effort and dedication must receive a reward at the level of this one... and soo far the nexus (i'm talking of the whole relic from the start to nexus) ask far more dedication and effort than what we get as reward. for me the relic deserve and must be the best weapon of the game, the work needed for get it is tedious and long enough for deserve this. however, i admit, that give this tooo early will only harm the game. i think that the relic must become more powerfull only 3 month after the release of the news tiers.

for make it more clear, what i means is nexus must had been to i120 when release and only get the i140 upgrade 3 month after the 2.4.

ps: truffles are luxury and normally you don't feed a pig with it... it means that it too good for them.

pss: i want to ask you something, do you think a news player will try to make the relic? i know the answer, most of them will not, all my friend that did start the game recently have simply abandonned really fast when they did learn all the step and how long it will take them when compared to the i110 gerolt weapon that they can get extremely fast...

[RiceisNice]

...

And I'd disagree that coil is pretty damn important to the story line, especially since it ties up the bridge between 1.0 and 2.0.
And I've never heard of people feeding truffles to pigs, only using them to sniff out and dig more. Blah... they're too expensive over here.

But yeah... I honestly feel that you should at least do everything that's available in the game to get the ultimate lewt. If relic is going to be the best weapon in the game, then it should at least require you to step into the highest tier of PvE (which means Coil.) I don't want it to be possible for people to get BiS equipment without ever having to step foot in the current content.

In the end though, the relic quest line just lacks any reason to do it other than to be a time sink. The model of the weapon is ok. The storyline/lore sucks, and it doesn't offer any aesthetic bonuses other than a glow. Nerfing the atma step was a step in the right direction, at least we can call it something that can be progressed on your own time gradually. Really I feel the problem is less about the relic weapon itself and more on the progression of gear with each patch.

These are relics... not epics.... because they aren't epic. They are throwaway glowy garbage for people to run around with jumping and showing people.

The damned Scholar person keeps on insisting otherwise...though he also insists my weapon has newfound power when I handed over the 12 Atmas, so I think he's delusional or somethin... Especially with all the praise Gerlot gets as a Master Blacksmith...yet his apprentice (whom he hardly trains mind you) can augment your equipment to be stronger than current relic. Really that's my gripe with calling this a quest line for a weapon of the olde.