What are the Pathwalkers

[Clawtooth]

I thought that everyone in the Scions that wasn't a Circle of Knowing member had the Echo (other than tataru). This is what distinguishes them from the Crystal Braves, because the crystal braves are neither.

[Grayve]

I'll admit I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I'll double check the lore streams. It wasn't the GE one, that's been transcribed and I checked it.

Found it. At 10 minutes into the premium stream lore special guest segment, Ferne is asked

Do Scions such as Yda have the echo?

No, they do not. I would elaborate if I was allowed to, but he said not to elaborate. Most of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn do have the echo, but the Archons/Sharlayons don't.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Most of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn do have the echo.

Wait, what? That seems to contradict what you wrote earlier:

Ferne confirmmed that the other scions do not have the echo, they have other useful skills.

What were his exact words? Are the Scions, excluding the Archons, all Echo-users, or not?

And by Scions, I'm referring to members like Hoary Boulder and Coultenet the Cultured.

[Grayve]

Wait, what? That seems to contradict what you wrote earlier:



What were his exact words? Are the Scions, excluding the Archons, all Echo-users, or not?

And by Scions, I'm referring to members like Hoary Boulder and Coultenet the Cultured.

Yes, sorry, i wasn't recalling the specifics right, and lumped the Scions and the Archons together. I'll get an exact quote

Q Do Scions such as Yda have the echo?


A No, they do not. I would elaborate if I was allowed to, but he said not to elaborate.

then the question was repeated, to confirm that they didn't have it, and he added this:

But the thing is, They are in the scions, because you know mostly, you have the scions of the seventh dawn, and... most of them have the echo right? and uh, why don't these guys? well, because they have other uses, yeah, right, they have all this knowledge about whats going on, um, being from the circle of knowing, and coming from sharlyan, you know, having all that knowledge there, um they were basically given, okay, you don't have the echo but you can come in because, you know, you're going to help out our group

[TinyRedLeaf]

Hmm... it seems that Fern spoke off-the-cuff, so I'm not sure how reliable the information is, but I'll take him at his word. So, there are other Echo-users in the Scions besides Minfilia and the main character.

I know for sure that, before the massacre at the Waking Sands, there were at least three Scions who were former Pathwalkers. One of them, a miqo'te mage, was particularly frustrated that none of the other Scions remembered who they were. It's frustrating for her because she and her two companions were among the most senior of the Pathwalkers.

But that trio of Pathwalkers were killed when Livia raided the Waking Sands.

Since then, I haven't come across other Scions who appear to possess the Echo. Hoary Boulder and Coultenet are the only two regular Scions you see at the Rising Stones, and they don't appear to be Echo-users. Some Scions are still based in the Waking Sands, but they don't strike me as Echo-users either.

So, who are the "most of them" who have the Echo? Hmmm.....

[Clawtooth]

Hmm... it seems that Fern spoke off-the-cuff, so I'm not sure how reliable the information is, but I'll take him at his word. So, there are other Echo-users in the Scions besides Minfilia and the main character.

I know for sure that, before the massacre at the Waking Sands, there were at least three Scions who were former Pathwalkers. One of them, a miqo'te mage, was particularly frustrated that none of the other Scions remembered who they were. It's frustrating for her because she and her two companions were among the most senior of the Pathwalkers.

But that trio of Pathwalkers were killed when Livia raided the Waking Sands.

Since then, I haven't come across other Scions who appear to possess the Echo. Hoary Boulder and Coultenet are the only two regular Scions you see at the Rising Stones, and they don't appear to be Echo-users. Some Scions are still based in the Waking Sands, but they don't strike me as Echo-users either.

So, who are the "most of them" who have the Echo? Hmmm.....

What about Hoary Boulder and Coltenet doesn't strike you as echo users? Basically anyone could get the echo - their outward appearance doesn't matter. The Scions of the Seventh Dawn was made up of The Path of the Twelve (Echo-users, Minfilia's 1.0 organisation) and The Circle of Knowing (The Archons, Louisoix's Organisation). In 2.3, Alphinaud added a third group - The Crystal Braves, a grand-company type thing without borders and allegience. I'm not sure if it's supposed to serve as a "military" arm of the Scions or not ... but be that as it may, Coltenet and Hoary Boulder joined the Scions before it was formed ... and since they're not Sharlayan, it seems obvious to me that they have the Echo.

Of course, Tataru throws this into a little disarray. She clearly does not have the Echo (she couldn't see Elidibus back in 2.1). I think she's just a normal person ... but other than her, I think everyone else in the Scions falls into one of these 2/3 groups - depending upon if the Crystal Braves are actually a part of the Scions or not.

[TinyRedLeaf]

What about Hoary Boulder and Coltenet doesn't strike you as echo users?

Point taken. I feel the way I do because of the way the nature of the Echo has been completely re-written in ARR. The Echo used to be more mystical and spiritual in the original version of the game, and the Path of the Twelve often reminded me of real-world Freemasonry, a secret society with semi-religious influences.

But in ARR, the Echo has become a more overt kind of power. It's no longer something innate, but is rather more an explicit manifestation of Hydaelyn's blessing. To possess the Echo is to be specially marked by Hydaelyn for greater things, and it's the chief reason that you, the main character, is so exceptionally powerful.

Of course, it could also be rationalised that you just happen to be an especially adept user of the Echo. But, as of now, no reason has been given as to why you're so special.

So, I've come to believe that simply being blessed with the Echo itself makes you especially strong, a mechanic that shows up during Trials. And yet, none of the present-day Scions outside of the Archons are particularly noteworthy.

Yes, it's true that the Echo manifests itself in different ways in each individual. That was made very clear even during 1.0. But then again, ver1.0 also made it very clear that all the Echo-users in the Path were pursuing personal pilgrimages of one form or another. That distinction is no longer as clear in ARR, especially after the massacre in Waking Sands and the addition of the Crystal Braves, whom I do consider to be the military arm of the Scions, a development that my character, Lyland, is not completely comfortable with.

[Mholito]

Some Scions are still based in the Waking Sands, but they don't strike me as Echo-users either.

I'm pretty sure at least one of the scions that are still at the Waking Sands has the Echo. The half-Ala Mhigan mentiones that he was sent there, after telling someone about a strange dream he had, early in the story.

[Kyan]

Most of the people that died in the Waking Sands in 2.0 had the Echo - if you talked to the NPCs between quests, they would mention things like "dreams" and "visions" etc. They also implied that their Echo was not as strong as the Player Characters. I would assume Hoary and Coltenet, as well as the remaining members still at the Waking Sands (excluding the female Roegadyn who is there to avenge her sister) have the Echo to some degree.

[DoctaruRavenbe]

one of the things we have to remember too back from 1.0 is that its not just about having the Echo but also where the Echo in you focuses on. Not everyone has the same level of skill in the Echo. we as the Warrior seem to be the Exception with memory soul link and universal translator.