Break the Trinity System Please

[myahele]

I don't think a support role is too necessary. Just give more support abilities to healers.

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Even is support role is a good idea, it wouldnt get rid of the trinity system, thing is, we dont really have buffer/debuffers. Protect and Stoneskin dont make a buffer class, Bio and Virus dont make a debuffer. I think a class specialized on support and debuffing skills can come and give us a fourth role, but will still be limited and be like that.

As much as i love build theory crafting and all, i preffer honest lack of variety over illusion of free will. Take GW2 for example, all classes can do "everything" and therefore there is no "roles" since everyone should be able to tank/deal damage/heal other or self... This failed misserably, with the evasion mechanics, most parties went full on max DPS and just outDPSed bosses everywhere since they also can heal and take a few shots, and the down mechanic even if is cool, can be abused to beyond limits doing this, making a group of glasscannons suddenly immortals.

[Sylve]

Bard should be a support class, but the ballads feel like more of a joke nod at support than real support. They drain mp that isn't in vast supply to start with and provide what feels like minimal help at all. Sure, they may get you out of a bind when a healer runs low on mp and needs to keep casting. snip

Ironically, i got most of my currently 236 Commendations while leveling my BRD, and i got those by snapping my Tp/MP songs on and off, timing the Song uptime to one of my many (I feel for this reason) Damage increasing skills.

It drives me insane to see BRDs sing one song for their entire MP bar and then be like, well i cant sing anymore. Pewpewpew

[Xatsh]

If true support is anything like BRD or RDM played in FFXI, no thanks. That is the height of boring/no skill play. Buff > Buff > Buff > Debuff > Debuff > Buff > "WHAT ARE YOU DOING STOP TRYING TO MELEE" > etc

You and me played different games in reference to rdm, brd maby in hnm fights I would give you the it is boring as all get out.

RDM was a healer, Support, Tank, Crowd Control and Debuff class for endgame XI. Only thing it could not do well endgame was nuke and melee.

Brd was a refresh whore in party play in XI. I will say that. This one I actually agree with you on. But outside hnms they were main pullers, secondary crowd control, main support, back up healer. (They were one of the most active jobs in a party)

Solo play brd was garbage through and through it required a party to function. RDM was a god amoung classes capable of killing world bosses that were designed for alliances solo. (well took hours to do but still doable)

[LeCard]

Ironically, i got most of my currently 236 Commendations while leveling my BRD, and i got those by snapping my Tp/MP songs on and off, timing the Song uptime to one of my many (I feel for this reason) Damage increasing skills.

It drives me insane to see BRDs sing one song for their entire MP bar and then be like, well i cant sing anymore. Pewpewpew

Drives me crazy too, but that is part of the problem. The ballads don't offer an easily noticeable bonuses so the average bard will pop one and leave it. The fact that the class is called "Bard" should mean that the ballads play more into the role of the job than a side boost that the best bards will make great use of while average/poor bards will kind of make use of them.

With the system now, you earned those commendations by being top tier at your job but anyone below that probably wont ever realize how to do that. (and if they do they probably wont really be able to optimize their use of it)

[Duelle]

I don't think you ever touched XI if you threw RDM into the "true support" category.

And I'll question your playing it if you actually refute the fact that the playerbase used it as nothing but pure support. The five cats soloing bosses and thus making everyone else hate us notwithstanding, of course (AKA "WTF y ar u aksing for melee buffs & fixes for ur job?!?!?!? go solo sky gods trollololol").

Bard should be a support class, but the ballads feel like more of a joke nod at support than real support.

Our bard is a DPS with utility cooldowns. Much like an enhancement shaman but requiring even more situational awareness since BRDs are supposed to know when to turn on the songs and when to turn off to go back to their full DPS potential. We got a much better deal out of the proceedings with things as they are.

Given that content in this game is essentially 4 or 8 person groups though, could a support job adequately depose a DPS in 4-man content? If they can, then aren't they greatly overpowered in 8-man content? I could see them fitting them into 8-man content easily enough and balancing that properly, but when you have to remove ~40% of your damage for support (in 4-man content assuming tank is 20% and DPS are each 40%) then that support has to pick up that 40% somehow or else nobody's going to bother.

The thread on the "other systems" subforums pretty much covers this. Support ends up being either worthless or mandatory for any hard content. You can't measure this by percentages to contribution because there are other factors that need to be taken into account. Including but not limited to class synergy and encounter design. Not to mention that no amount of buffs and debuffs are going to make up for that portion of missing damage. Buffs that end up making up that missing damage end up being overpowered, same thing for debuffs and so the cycle continues.

[Sylve]

snip

I think the Songs just need more visual aura when its active on people. Its incredibly noticeable on my Monk when i get the TP song, it literally suspends my TP expenditure (MY SS is too high, so i end up spending TP at an insane rate)
Likewise on my WHM, Having a Ballad active forces me to full MP no matter how hard i dump spells. Its just that if you don't look for the icon ... You don't see that its active, even if you can see the effects. I Advocate the spell effect being accompanied by a visual aura on affected people, not too obnoxious, but big enough to be seen, so when you see it, You KNOW a BRD is singing. (Personally i want the musical notes from the King Mog Trial >_>)
Also, I'm ok with a system that rewards proper use of skills. On the other hand, if they made it too powerful, BRDs would be "must haves" for all content. I think its in a good spot power wise, just needs visual help

[Moonleg]

If you let someone make you play a job that you don't want to, that's your issue, not a problem with having more role variety. And everyone uses the exact same cross class skills for each job already. I am failing to see your point.

Raid Leader: Kyroc! Switch to NewSupportClass!
Kyroc: No, I wanna stay as THM to do uber DPS!
Raid Leader: Kyroc, you're out of the raid. Donald, switch to NewSupportClass! You get Kyroc's place.
Donald: Okay, boss!

See how it works?

[RayneBoemir]

True support classes wouldn't work who wants to really stand there and cast buffs and you can get that if a class like this were introduced it would be the least playable class in the game. It would have to be dps/support like bard.

[Lollerblades]

I'm hoping 3.0 will slowly do away with this. I'm really hoping a support job is released, hence why we got ninja now.