Break the Trinity System Please

[Codek]

No.

Go play GW2.

Wrong "break the Trinity" topic...

[Feyniphia]

I'd rather they keep the Holy Trinity in the game. =x

[Gextiv]

Heard of the abomination known as GW2? Terrible. I think nothing can top the trinity.

Thus I must express my complete opposition to OP's idea, in hopes that it will not come to fruition.

[Sylve]

Rift tried to break the Trinity model, There were a number of Support specs that could be used and a group wouldn't form without one. Which led to people flagging themselves as support even when they were not in order to get a faster queue.

But the reason it took so long to fill that slot is because in the minds of the majority of MMO players, if its not doing LEET DEEPS its not worth playing.

[Duelle]

If you let someone make you play a job that you don't want to, that's your issue, not a problem with having more role variety.

Peer pressure in the context of progression is a real thing. And people will use it for easy invites because no one likes to play support. It's a lose-lose for everyone except people that don't seem to grasp the concept of class balance and party synergy and why the fourth role has broken more MMOs than helped (if any).

As I've said in the past, there's a reason developers ended up rolling aspects of "support" and "mezzer" into the trinity roles. It gives the trinity roles depth while limiting the number of roles people don't want to do.

PS: And in case you're wondering, no game has had support massively out-populate tanks, heals and DPS. The closest thing was Lineage II's bladedancer, and even that was designed as a DPS with buffs that could be instantly cast on the group and was popular because dual wielding swords was cool.

[IzumiYuki]

No.

Go play GW2.

Heard of the abomination known as GW2? Terrible. I think nothing can top the trinity.

Thus I must express my complete opposition to OP's idea, in hopes that it will not come to fruition.

You totally missed the point. He wants to "break" the Trinity by adding a fourth role to it, that is support.

He doesn't want to totally remove the system like in GW2.

[Pandastirfry]

You totally missed the point. He wants to "break" the Trinity by adding a fourth role to it, that is support.

He doesn't want to totally remove the system like in GW2.

Which just creates a 4th slot that must be filled, and usually the trinity reaserts itself as the "true support class" casts it's handful of buffs/debuffs and then gets relegated to backup/off healer or gimped DPS until it's time to refresh the buffs. I remember being a BRD in XI, cast my two DPS songs, Cast my Mage Ballads... Now shut up and cast cure until it's time to cast songs again, and don't you dare try to melee

[Nutz]

Which just creates a 4th slot that must be filled, and usually the trinity reaserts itself as the "true support class" casts it's handful of buffs/debuffs and then gets relegated to backup/off healer or gimped DPS until it's time to refresh the buffs. I remember being a BRD in XI, cast my two DPS songs, Cast my Mage Ballads... Now shut up and cast cure until it's time to cast songs again, and don't you dare try to melee

Well, to be fair a support class or mage hitting a mob with their weapon in that game was actually designed to be detrimental....for some reason. Since mobs don't gain TP per hit and use actions at an increased rate because of that in this game that particular bit would not be a factor. I feel like they could make a much more engaging support class than BRD or RDM were (or the semi-supports like SMN and COR) with a decent variety of shorter buffs and reduced damage dealing and/or healing capabilities.

Given that content in this game is essentially 4 or 8 person groups though, could a support job adequately depose a DPS in 4-man content? If they can, then aren't they greatly overpowered in 8-man content? I could see them fitting them into 8-man content easily enough and balancing that properly, but when you have to remove ~40% of your damage for support (in 4-man content assuming tank is 20% and DPS are each 40%) then that support has to pick up that 40% somehow or else nobody's going to bother.

[LeCard]

I think it could be tuned a bit more,

Bard should be a support class, but the ballads feel like more of a joke nod at support than real support. They drain mp that isn't in vast supply to start with and provide what feels like minimal help at all. Sure, they may get you out of a bind when a healer runs low on mp and needs to keep casting. Tuning the bard to have more useful songs would give them a better feeling of support without hurting their DPS too bad. and yes they do take a DPS hit when using a ballad, so even there the ballads points to being a true support job gimped. I think giving the bard ballads that could up attack speed for the party, decrease enmity for near by members or such things and not have them drain mp rapidly, but drain based on enmity blocked/each attack used under influence etc.
after all, what job type is best suited to support than a ranged job?

[Tupsi]

If true support is anything like BRD or RDM played in FFXI, no thanks. That is the height of boring/no skill play. Buff > Buff > Buff > Debuff > Debuff > Buff > "WHAT ARE YOU DOING STOP TRYING TO MELEE" > etc

I don't think you ever touched XI if you threw RDM into the "true support" category lol.