Break the Trinity System Please

[Akiza]

If Final Fantasy XIV had a Class system like Everquest 2 where there are two specializations for each Job and every one is versatile then the Trinity system wouldn't have to be broken.

[Triston]

While it has been shown in past MMOs that having a dedicated support role allows for much more complicated mechanics, (see RIFT) the major problem is in bottlenecking for queues. Adding a support role would require that they increase party sizes to ~6, (tank/heal/support/3dps) which then would become 12-14 in a full party, and having such LARGE groups is really unwieldy from both a designer and player perspective. (just ask Blizzard)
No matter how cool some of us think it would be to play a dedicated buffer/debuffer, there are 4-5x as many people who just want to do dps, and it's already well-known how bad DPS queues are in every MMO ever.


Additionally, depending on how the role is taken into account in high-end raid situations, the support jobs would become either obsolete in certain cases (having one that specializes in CC in a no-CC fight or vice versa, again see RIFT or EQ) OR functionally identical with redundant gameplay, making you wonder why they exist at all. (WoW players do notice when they don't have the full collection of raid buffs, but ask how much they care which classes they bring to a raid)

The only meaningful workaround would be to design encounters to permit for more than one strategy depending on which support you bring, and wow if that isn't asking way too much of any developer just to add another role.

As a BRD player from FFXI, I will be the first to admit that I love primary supporting, but it is an extremely flawed concept. I played BRD, which has enjoyed the advantage of having been welcome in 99.999% of all content FFXI has produced. Ask a RDM player how they feel, or PUP, or DNC, etc. Support roles inherently compete with each other, and have no place in modern MMOs where balance BETWEEN classes is valued. Support abilities are best when distributed among all jobs, especially in a way that all are useful but never required.

..and did I mention it's unpopular? Everyone needs a BRD, few want to play one.

[Sainya]

What do you all think?

What I think may be unpopular with the vocal minority on these forums: No one ever seems happy. The 1.0 system of cross-classing any ability you wanted was a great idea in theory, and would have made for great things like support mage jobs or even DD backup healers. But nope, everyone complained so much about it they took it out instead of just improving it. I liked being able to backup heal on Pugilist. And also what I think is in my signature below.

Please look forward to it.

[raelgun]

Rift didnt have complicated mechanics, and certainly support didnt allow for it either, support just had access to certain abilities that could nullify a ability that needs to be stopped, you basically activate said skill when needed and make sure you are free under the gcd to do it, how is that allowing for more complicated mechanics ?

[Sapphic]

Rift didnt have complicated mechanics, and certainly support didnt allow for it either, support just had access to certain abilities that could nullify a ability that needs to be stopped, you basically activate said skill when needed and make sure you are free under the gcd to do it, how is that allowing for more complicated mechanics ?

Rift raids where very highly tuned. Support added a lot in boss fights. Bards made a massive difference in high end raids. 1.0 tier 3 Hammerknell, tier 2 in the expansion also. tier 3 was added but I moved to ARR before that. The difference of having and not having support was blatently noticeable.

Also support was a lot more than you claim, reduced damage to raid, increase stats, damage debuffs, regens etc. Buffs you didn't "activate when needed" you kept them up constantly plus DPSd. Yes, support DPSd also, not as much as pure DPS of course. Pure DPS would be hitting in tier 2 30k single target, support around 18-20k.

[Spawns]

Support Roles for President

[Toodles]

^I have hope too

Red Mage & Agent should be very interesting I think.

[NyarukoW]

We don't want a broken game. The more you change the more it will stay the same. Call the roles whatever you like, it won't be long before people figure out the efficient mix of "tank, healer, and dps". If not you will have one OP class and everyone will be there and that will be that.

[Toodles]

^by that logic we'd only have 1 melee DPS instead of 3.

People will still play any of DRG, MNK, or NIN.

Expansions are a good time for revision of such systems like revising Class/Job System or implementing Supports (possible revision of Party Makeup's).

Besides, we basically already have a Support in Bard.

It's supportive capabilities don't damper it's worthiness in group.

It gimps it's DPS to give party more DPS, etc.

It's an enabler.

Deeper Support Jobs could always use the DPS flag too so party makeup doesn't require change.

Let's say by default a Support does 80% dps, but through effective use of skills it can do 100% or increase a party member's DPS to 120%, bringing with it additional utility from other Jobs.

Sure, it wouldn't technically break the Trinity as this thread originally proposes but it's workable within the game's framework as most people seem to want (and how SE is likely to include more Support-Types).

Benefits? Enhance a BLM for nuke-phases, enhance a DRG for quick-burn, enhance a MNK for sustained encounters. You personally wouldn't really shine in any of these categories but would bolster others efficiently to crush enemies.

Solo, you wouldn't really be gimped albeit not the quickest farmer ever. Probably the ultimate Solo'er though with all the add'l tools like how SCH/SMN are awesome doing Alex Maps alone.

[Delily]

^by that logic we'd only have 1 melee DPS instead of 3.

People will still play any of DRG, MNK, or NIN.

That's because within the DPS role, so long as each class does similar damage, people will play it. The difference is how each class operates.

It gimps it's DPS to give party more DPS, etc.

Deeper Support Jobs could always use the DPS flag too so party makeup doesn't require change.

Let's say by default a Support does 80% dps, but through effective use of skills it can do 100% or increase a party member's DPS to 120%, bringing with it additional utility from other Jobs.

You still haven't solve the original problem. That support class will now be required to do end game raiding. Raid leaders will basically tell those players they have do their best to maintain the 120% improvement. Devs will have to design encounters with them in mind, and have to somehow entice people to play it. You've effectively gimped everyone who doesn't have the class. The current design, spreading out the buffs and debuffs among classes, on long cooldowns or at costs is probably the most efficient way to ensure people can still have buffs, but not require everyone to have them.