100,000 needles... Ok, how many times you wipe before figuring out.

[Snugglebutt]

I remember when first tried Shiva HM, everyone was new and we spread out and got her down to around 20% then she started going crazy with aoe's so everyone ran in middle and we died. Second try everyone just ran into middle and we died and again at around 20%. Third try most people ran into middle but others like myself stayed out dodging the aoe's and running in middle only for heals and when an aoe forced retreating into middle...we cleared it but some other player (tank) who was new to place too whined and was quite rude complaining how I was not standing in middle with them all the time.

My tactic was working and I was not dying plus I was keeping the healers who were spamming heal's in that middle groups MP up with bard song so I thought it was rude of him to whine about me not standing in middle with him and the others. We only had one BLM if I recall and the only other casters were healers which were spamming heals so I made the decision was better to have MP regen up as much as possible not Foes.

Pretty sure the proper tactic is not everyone stand in middle and cross your fingers while spamming heals of which would of been much harder had I not been keeping MP regen up. I don't like really being in groups like that because it is not a reliable solution that can be applied to every run, I would rather learn the fight properly than zerg it and spam heals while hoping the DPS is high enough to kill it before kills everyone else as the healers MP runs out.

I have yet to try couple of new dungeons but have cleared Snowcloak on first run (wiped once until figured out tactic for Fenrir) and Shiva HM on first run (wiped couple times in the run as mentioned above) but the other patch 2.4 new dungeons/trials I have yet to do. Certainly do not want to try Shiva EX using that tactic of everyone standing in middle hoping for the best like previous group did in HM version. Groups like that leave me lacking in knowledge of the mechanics of the fights and I don't like that.