First New Dungeon Experience - Seriously?

[Zefiris]

My first time in Qarn HM with guild party. 3 dps and healer (me) and we win without tank o.o

Anyway, all ilvl 100+

[Alukah]

Wonder when people will realize artificial difficulty isn't difficulty.

And who said this was artificial difficulty? The dungeons are tuned for i80-i90, you are merely going to the recommended ilvl instead of overgearing it.

But it's always better to complain when you have the means to fix it.

[Krr]

And who said this was artificial difficulty? The dungeons are tuned for i80-i90, you are merely going to the recommended ilvl instead of overgearing it.

But it's always better to complain when you have the means to fix it.

Some people want to be challenged at their full potential utilizing all of their character tools, including gear they've earned, not constantly strap training weights to their character by removing gear they earned like some Dragon Ball Z garbage. That's what people mean by artificial difficulty - it's an inorganic way of playing the game to intentionally downgrade your gear just to be challenged in 4-player content.

[Alukah]

Some people want to be challenged at their full potential utilizing all of their character tools, including gear they've earned, not constantly strap training weights to their character by removing gear they earned like some Dragon Ball Z garbage. That's what people mean by artificial difficulty - it's an inorganic way of playing the game to intentionally downgrade your gear just to be challenged in 4-player content.

Sadly that's how they design encounters in this game, with a very specific ilvl in mind, with the current design the only content where players can be challenge at their full potential utilizing all of their character tools is the end game raid. Stating the obvious, overgearing content will diminish the difficulty, since this content was designed with i80-i90 the only way to experience the full challenge is by wearing said ilvl (or applying a forced ilvl sync, but I doubt anyone wants that) they wont release new dungeons for the current average ilvl just because those dungeons were designed with the lowest denominator in mind, and because they think coil is enough to satisfy those with the current meta ilvl (yes yes, I know they are wrong here).

And let's not forget they pretend to not know about the existence of a middle ground, hence why we have no "midcore" content, so until they acknowledge this you can use the means you have to adjust yourself to these low-end dungeons, if you truly want to enjoy them at their full difficulty.

There are many ways to fix this situation, like monster stats being based on the average ilvl party instead of a set ilvl (with a limit, of course), but doing this would also fix the issue of pushing/stacking phases in primals and coil fights, and since they want to make us feel as miserable as they can they won't try to fix it.

[Toodles]

This game needs midcore content so badly.

Honestly, everything should be divided up into Easy/Story (current Dungeons), Medium (Primal Ex's, SCOB Pre-Coil), & Hard (Savage Coil).

Some things are acceptable to keep Middle-grade only like Primal Extremes.

Others like Dungeons, I don't think so. Dungeons need a harder difficulty option desperately.

[Nestama]

Which is why I suggest a 'Mistral Ballad' version of the dungeons. Difficulty will recommend players to be around i105 and the rewards will be treated similarly to Walk of Echoes in FFXI. Every boss you beat, four chests will drop, one for each player. In the chests will be a dyeable dungeon equip (say you do Lost City. The gear that is not Darklight can be dyed), an untradeable dye, a Poetic crafting mat, ten Ventures and a 30-50% chance of i115 equipment dropping. For the final boss, exact same thing, but this time the fifth chest will either have a 30-50% chance at dropping i115 gear, or a 5-10% chance at dropping i125 gear. For giggles, there can be a 1% chance of a fifth chest appearing that will drop a i130 weapon.

[BreathlessTao]

At the moment, all Low Level dungeons starting at Brayflox Longstep are arguably harder than the level 50 dungeons.

Beyond arguing, even, I think. And that's because you can't deck yourself in full gear twice the iLvl of what the dungeon is itself, like, someone not doing these new "expert" dungeons in full i100 at least, there's a good chance they're gonna get called out for being a newb. (Which is totally unfair but that's another topic.) Why can't all the dungeons just have item level sync to begin with? Then it wouldn't feel like we're burning through everything new after 2-3 learning runs simply because we're outgeared enough to pull several mobs at once.

And yeah, the rewards are a joke. While a good sign of the token system in itself... i90? Really? (Although given the ridiculous allied seals prices for these same pieces, it seems justified; other than that though, not so much.) Crafting mats after crafting mats that are 45% of no use to the player, 45% are on sale for 1-2k (or even less) on the MB, and maybe there's a 10% that's happy for them? While at the same mats for summer glamour gears are still insanely unavailable/overpriced and most of the gear itself is also rarer than the number of Nexus relics? (At least on Shiva, approximately.) Just....bad. Simply bad.

[vp_cmc]

Only I feel strange to be blamed for being overgeared for the content, that came 2 days ago?

[xnonamex]

Well problem is that most of the people are doing it with iLVL110 because let's say it - all ppl who have invested some time in the game has iLVL110 or something near that. Now imagine a person who started playing this recently. For them in iLVL80 or near that these dungeons are most probably deadly experience. The problem is that SE is releasing new content every 3 months or so. So they basically can do a few things for evry group of players.

Now again - some people are already wiping and complaining about people that "suck" (even here). So basically in general you would want dungeon that is hard for end game players (meaning that if you would get a casual it would be almost impossible to do ) but at the same time you (or most of the population) would be complaining that some mechanic is too hard because most of the people couldn't handle it so eventually you would rage about all the wipes. Dungeons are made for the "casuals" to have something to do and be able to level their gear.

[Lemuria]

I kind of understand everyone's points of view here, and to be fair they're pretty justified.

With the removal of mythology tomes, all "basic" dungeon gear is ilvl 100 weathered equipment, so everyone is likely to be running around with full i100 in these dungeons as a minimum. Give it a few months and no newcomer would have even seen their 'relic' AF2 before jumping into superior gear. THAT is one of my biggest gripes with the progression system. By making it trivial to upgrade you essentially remove the gradual increase in difficulty.

Instead you go from "This is hard" to "That was stupidly easy"... all in a handful of dungeon runs. If they had left myth gear in the game, and added a more gradual system to improve yourself, people would both find lower tier dungeons more relevant AND it would mean that players gradually improve themselves before attempting the higher tier fights.

Not that a gradual improvement system needs to rely on the ridiculously grindy methods that SE have been employing to date. The ilvl requirement in itself could be used to gate content, shepherding players into the right dungeon for their gear level so they can work towards upgrades to then play higher tier stuff. This is also why I was so dead-set against the idea of removing mythology tomes and making the gear random drops. Just like Darklight, no one will ever see a full set before they've upgraded out of it.

This is basic MMO 101, and it's rather sad that SE have decided to ignore such an obvious mechanic.