Ninja seems a bit broken

[Leonus]

But even with that, mnk should still come out on top, just less room for error on the mnks part to maintain GL3.

[Viridiana]

DK (and SE/DE for NIN) isn't a straight +10% though. It would be better to just compare what the difference is between the two; DK and SE/DE is the same, speed of Huton vs GL3 is the same. You're mostly comparing the damage of 42% (GL Snakes FoF) to NIN's 20% (Kiss) and higher overall potencies.

Granted, but I assume that's where he got the number from. The "-X% Resistance" thing seems to be weird. Like, if it affects dots for casters, why not for melee? Why isn't it a straight "+X% damage of ___ Type" instead? Would make things so much easier to compare. . .

[silentwindfr]

sadly i think ninja will be close, if not beat the monk actually, the difference of potency of the attack is really important, and the loose of tp seems less violent actually.

other point we loose of sight, monk have time where it loose GL, when in optimal situation ninja don't have this downtime. the difference of potency in the attack are not little, best damaging combo of the monk do have a potency of 520. where ninja best damaging combo is 620, i will not count that ninja have every 40 second a burst damage that monk can't make up (either raiton: 360 potency or Suiton + trick attack: 580 potency, this last will increase him damage of 10% behind)
same the dot have is higher of 5 potency on the ninja and feel more simple to maintain without burn your tp.

i will not give monk winner, since at same ilevel, my ninja with a weapon of 10 less ilevel beat it easily.

finally, i know that burst is not the most important, but the ninja burst can be quiet violent, what lack the monk sadly atm.

ps: however, the difference of dps between the two will probably close of 10 dps max anyway.

I don't believe that in a straight fight with little moving involved like to that mnk will loose to nin in damage.

I just don't believe that.

indeed the auto attack of the monk is almost at 90 dmg of difference with my monk (using the animus) and my ninja using the atma with +4 dex (only 2 book done)
however, the combo of the monk are weaker, more important only have 3 skill out of gcd. meaning most of him damage will come from the auto attack and the combo.

that where the ninja beat the monk, he do have the ninjutsu that out gcd. your ninjutsu, will be cycle like this every 60 second you will do Huton for maintain the speed buff. every 60 second you will do suiton (180 potency) for use trick attack (400 potency +10% damage for 10 sec) and every 60 second you will do raiton (360 potency) it will generally be Huton > Suiton > Raiton (on mono target).

another comparaison, the DoT, the monk and ninja have both 2 DoT:
- monk dot are 70 potency + 240 (40 potency on 18 second) and 20 potency + 250 (25 potency on 30 sec).
- ninja dot are 200 potency + 240 (40 potency on 18 second) and 60 potency + 300 (30 potency on 30 sec).

the combo too have a fair amount of difference:
- monk best damage combo : 520 potency
- ninja best damage combo : 620 potency

indeed the monk do have more buff +42% (+27% from GL, +5% from fire first and +10% from twin snake)
ninja only have him poison that will increase the damage of +20%.

but with soo much difference of damage in the skill, do the 90 of damage of more every 2 second will make up for the ninjutsu and other damage superior? i will leave the theorycrafter answer this. but like i have said, the difference in dps will probably be around 10dps. other point i haven't mentionned, ninja have no time of setup in comparaison of the monk, and i didn't count kassatsu with a GCD of 120 second that allows to relaunch a ninjutsu automatically critical. nor i did count the fact that fight that have little to no deplacement that will impact monk are quite rare.

it's nice to talk of theorycrafting and all, but it's better to not forget that they are theory... and reality is what we live into. most of the fight ask you to move and can leave you to loose GL having a huge impact on the monk dps... what it will not affect the ninja.

don't get me wrong i love both of them, but ninja will probably be better in mono target dps. don't forget that he have almost nothing for save him outside the skill we take from... the pugilist haha.

ps: did reach my day count of post... they really need to get ride of it :x

[ShaolinMike]

ps: however, the difference of dps between the two will probably close of 10 dps max anyway.

Hooray job balancing. I like the idea of them being close. Hopefully that will amount to less people jumping on the NIN bandwagon JUST because it does more DPS. Let people who truly enjoy MNK stay as MNKs without feeling like they're getting the short end of the stick. Let the people who like the play style of NIN be ninjas for that reason.

[Leonus]

I don't believe that in a straight fight with little moving involved like to that mnk will loose to nin in damage.

I just don't believe that.

[Warrlordd]

Believe it son. Ninja's do a high amount of damage and monks can cry about it all they want but they are no longer needed to push DPS in a grp.
This sounds like the PLD thread that was whining when WAR got balanced in 2.1

And i laugh, laugh laugh and the sad, sad players who feel like NIN is gonna replace them.

[Leonus]

Believe it son. Ninja's do a high amount of damage and monks can cry about it all they want but they are no longer needed to push DPS in a grp.
This sounds like the PLD thread that was whining when WAR got balanced in 2.1

And i laugh, laugh laugh and the sad, sad players who feel like NIN is gonna replace them.

If this is the case, expect incoming nerfs. People will complain enough for SE to change things.

[silentwindfr]

If this is the case, expect incoming nerfs. People will complain enough for SE to change things.

why that? because another jobs can do the same jobs than monk? offering more choice in the composition of the group?
i gonna be blunt, if you expect that monk will stay the best dps forever i think you haven't play a lot of mmorpg before. the balance change all the time, but more important, we know that they gonna add more and more and more jobs in the futur. monk, lancer, even ninja will need to learn to coexist with other melee dps they will add in the futur.

what it means? it means you have the choice to play whatever you want! because the difference between each class in terms of dps will be close to not important. theorycrafting and hardcore gamer have deal a looot of damage to the mmorpg modern. the idea to say "this class is better that other" is one of them...what do we do? we play a game for what? use the best jobs around or have fun? my choice is already made *shrugs*

ps: i did main pugilist since the start, but i have found the ARR version of the monk too much looking like a rogue... when the ninja, for me, feel like a true monk that will simply rush in and don't care of him position.

[ShinSenpai]

Fuck nerfing, buff things instead.

[Marionette]

Ninja also has a 15% increased attack speed from Huton which is the same as GL3. The real question is if they can keep that going for majority of the fight. If you can keep it up then their GCD is no different than monk.

Yeah but greased lightning isn't only the attack speed, it also gives 9% (27% for three stacks) worth of damage, with twin snakes up it's also an additional 10%, then another 5% for fist of fire. so even with the poison boost, mnk still has 12% higher damage than nin statistically. Counting out dancing edge with dragon kicks boost. As well as Trick attack, which is up 1/6th of the time at best, and affects everyone not just the nin. Mnk is still outdoing it for raw damage. Ergo nin has some higher potency