Ninja seems a bit broken

[Ehayte]

From reading skill descriptions (my ROG is 27, so I can't pretend to know anything about Ninja), my assumption is that NIN is going to be very very useful primarily because of Trick Attack. It looks to be a hugely powerful move, and we'll see what the application is long-term.

As per NIN out-dpsing MNK in end-game... There are maybe 1 or 2 people that could tell you the viability of that, and they are probably passed out right now from playing for over 24 hours straight.

Let's wait and see, but it will continue to be an interesting topic.

[aabe]

In term of buff, Ninja is 22% down from Monk(GL 3 + FoF + Twin Snake).
Because of that, Ninja's auto-atk will be 22% (assuming additive coefficience) less than Monk's and auto-atk is roughly 30% of mDPS.

790 potency was in terms of combo potency strength. MNK's combo ending in demolish vs NIN's combo ending in shadow fang.

I didn't count twin snakes, as Ninja has it's own "Twin Snakes" with their slashing debuff though TS is probably a bit better because resistances debuffs are never as big of an increase as flat damage buffs (IE dragoon piercing debuff only giving a BRD about 7% overall dps boost)

HOWEVER, this is probably outweighed by the fact that NIN can have their own "dragon kicker" with a WAR, and swap out the slashing debuff for their 320 potency combo finisher. In final coil 10 & 11 so far I've seen no reason that a warrior can't keep up both path and eye, and at that, path becomes less mandatory as gear improves for these turns.

[aabe]

From reading skill descriptions (my ROG is 27, so I can't pretend to know anything about Ninja), my assumption is that NIN is going to be very very useful primarily because of Trick Attack. It looks to be a hugely powerful move, and we'll see what the application is long-term.

As per NIN out-dpsing MNK in end-game... There are maybe 1 or 2 people that could tell you the viability of that, and they are probably passed out right now from playing for over 24 hours straight.

Let's wait and see, but it will continue to be an interesting topic.

I'm going off of my beliefs in general, no offense to those grinding NIN but I'm not going to expect the players to be authorities on playing the class optimally at 50 when it's been out for a few days.

However, I do believe multi-nin comps will be extreemely good with coordinated trick attacks, for farmed content 3/4 NIN could even be more of a standard considering goad is 400 TP with trait.

[aabe]

Doesn't really seem fair to compare listed monk potency with rogue/ninja, monk has the attack power buffs and incredible skill speed.. I mean you'd think DRG would out dps Monk if you're just looking at potency but it obviously doesn't play out that way.. It looks like ninja will have buffs and speed boost, if it gets the best of both then maybe it will be stronger than monk.. I think it's still too early to tell, though..

Ninja is only missing about 12% attack power buff from MNK, the only difference is with huton having to be reapplied through ninjutsu. Twin snakes doesn't count for much considering my previous post, also the fact that Eye debuff lasts longer than twin snakes so it would be reapplied even less, even if it weren't already kept up by a warrior.

[Ehayte]

However, I do believe multi-nin comps will be extreemely good with coordinated trick attacks, for farmed content 3/4 NIN could even be more of a standard considering goad is 400 TP with trait.

I think you are dead on there and I will be interested to see if SE has a nerf for this. Think about WAR/NIN/NIN/NIN/NIN/NIN/WHM/SCH in T8... 83% uptime on Trick Attack plus the WAR using Storm's path. lolololololol

[aabe]

...

See my above posts.

If you go off of raw potencies, 12% extra damage is not anywhere near enough to make up for 140 potency difference on MNK's primary finisher vs NIN's primary finisher. Nor NIN's potencies across the board. I don't agree with you about defensive utility, Dragon Kick actually lowers magic damage slightly so that's one. But Mantra is more of a skill to let your raid relax, while NIN Goad... TP is TP. There's nothing you can really do to fix TP issues at an optimal level (which still exist, and will very much be prevalent with the high uptime-long encounter scenario final coil looks to have from turns 10+11). There's really nothing you can do to keep your TP up short of stopping all DPS and letting it tick back, bards fulfill this duty already to an extent but goad is a much more concentrated TP regen and jobs such as a multidotting bard will need TP more than others in specific fights.

[aabe]

I think you are dead on there and I will be interested to see if SE has a nerf for this. Think about WAR/NIN/NIN/NIN/NIN/NIN/WHM/SCH in T8... 83% uptime on Trick Attack plus the WAR using Storm's path. lolololololol

I never thought about T8 and solo tank/solo heal compositions but now I'm really interested. I'm not in the mood to think of it in my head but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be 83% uptime unless Kassatsu was a thing, considering each nin still has to reapply huton every minute.

[Rahaya]

It's not 12% extra damage iirc. It's 22%. GL3 = 27% damage alone, Twin Snakes is 10%, Fists of Fire is 5%. The statement 'NIN has their own TS by slashing resistance...' no. That's not how resistances work. Yes, you should count Twin Snakes. Why wouldn't you? Really. MNK gets Blunt resistance down (6-7%) via Dragon Kick ON TOP of a flat 10% damage increase. NIN only Venom at 20% with slashing which is 6-7% damage.

Bootshine is an autocrit, have to account for that too.

[aabe]

.

DRG piercing debuff has been tried and proven and it's very easy to apply one thing to another when it comes to things like resistances because of how this game works. If debuffs were universal and everything had the same potency, I can guarantee you a piercing debuff would be the same increase as slashing debuff on every turn from 1 to 13. NIN even gains more from slashing debuff than a BRD gains from piercing at that because of potency scaling. I explained in my post why I didn't necessarily count twin snakes, and the only real advantage TS holds over slashing debuff is that DoT will benefit from it, since the actual dot ticks will be buffed. I accounted for bootshine autocrit as far as rotational potencies (150 potency x 1.5) in my original post. I will however give you DK debuff, but a lot of the buff reapplications are a drawback that a MNK has to deal with as it's still a potency loss on that specific GCD.

[Ehayte]

I never thought about T8 and solo tank/solo heal compositions but now I'm really interested. I'm not in the mood to think of it in my head but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be 83% uptime unless Kassatsu was a thing, considering each nin still has to reapply huton every minute.

Isn't it a 10 second buff that can be used every minute? 10+10+10+10+10=50seconds 50seconds/60seconds = .83333 or 83.33%