Ninja seems a bit broken

[Rahaya]

It's not 12% extra damage iirc. It's 22%. GL3 = 27% damage alone, Twin Snakes is 10%, Fists of Fire is 5%. The statement 'NIN has their own TS by slashing resistance...' no. That's not how resistances work. Yes, you should count Twin Snakes. Why wouldn't you? Really. MNK gets Blunt resistance down (6-7%) via Dragon Kick ON TOP of a flat 10% damage increase. NIN only Venom at 20% with slashing which is 6-7% damage.

Bootshine is an autocrit, have to account for that too.

[aabe]

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DRG piercing debuff has been tried and proven and it's very easy to apply one thing to another when it comes to things like resistances because of how this game works. If debuffs were universal and everything had the same potency, I can guarantee you a piercing debuff would be the same increase as slashing debuff on every turn from 1 to 13. NIN even gains more from slashing debuff than a BRD gains from piercing at that because of potency scaling. I explained in my post why I didn't necessarily count twin snakes, and the only real advantage TS holds over slashing debuff is that DoT will benefit from it, since the actual dot ticks will be buffed. I accounted for bootshine autocrit as far as rotational potencies (150 potency x 1.5) in my original post. I will however give you DK debuff, but a lot of the buff reapplications are a drawback that a MNK has to deal with as it's still a potency loss on that specific GCD.

[Ehayte]

and the only real advantage TS holds over slashing debuff is that DoT will benefit from it

Shouldn't we be comparing TwSn to the poison stances and DK to Slashing debuff?

[Rahaya]

DRG piercing debuff has been tried and proven ...

DRG has been tried and proven to do..what? I don't think you finished that thought. DRGs gain from their own piercing debuff and they have similar potencies, BRD has nothing to do with this conversation. Foe's is a magic resistance decrease, pretty sure it works the same way. What are you saying here?

MNK potency should be calculated at max damage steroids (42%) compared to NIN (20%), then calculate how much their debuffs count. NIN applying their own debuff is a potency loss for them too. Having a WAR put it up, or a mnk having another mnk to do it, are optimal but not guaranteed things. As such, shouldn't be taken for granted.

TS is a FLAT 10% damage. It holds all the things over a resistance debuff. Flat damage > resistance down. Flat damage IS universal, comparing a flat damage to a resistance debuff is not how it works.

My main point is that it's not 12%, its 22%.

[Ehayte]

From reading skill descriptions (my ROG is 27, so I can't pretend to know anything about Ninja), my assumption is that NIN is going to be very very useful primarily because of Trick Attack. It looks to be a hugely powerful move, and we'll see what the application is long-term.

As per NIN out-dpsing MNK in end-game... There are maybe 1 or 2 people that could tell you the viability of that, and they are probably passed out right now from playing for over 24 hours straight.

Let's wait and see, but it will continue to be an interesting topic.

[aabe]

From reading skill descriptions (my ROG is 27, so I can't pretend to know anything about Ninja), my assumption is that NIN is going to be very very useful primarily because of Trick Attack. It looks to be a hugely powerful move, and we'll see what the application is long-term.

As per NIN out-dpsing MNK in end-game... There are maybe 1 or 2 people that could tell you the viability of that, and they are probably passed out right now from playing for over 24 hours straight.

Let's wait and see, but it will continue to be an interesting topic.

I'm going off of my beliefs in general, no offense to those grinding NIN but I'm not going to expect the players to be authorities on playing the class optimally at 50 when it's been out for a few days.

However, I do believe multi-nin comps will be extreemely good with coordinated trick attacks, for farmed content 3/4 NIN could even be more of a standard considering goad is 400 TP with trait.

[Ehayte]

However, I do believe multi-nin comps will be extreemely good with coordinated trick attacks, for farmed content 3/4 NIN could even be more of a standard considering goad is 400 TP with trait.

I think you are dead on there and I will be interested to see if SE has a nerf for this. Think about WAR/NIN/NIN/NIN/NIN/NIN/WHM/SCH in T8... 83% uptime on Trick Attack plus the WAR using Storm's path. lolololololol

[aabe]

I think you are dead on there and I will be interested to see if SE has a nerf for this. Think about WAR/NIN/NIN/NIN/NIN/NIN/WHM/SCH in T8... 83% uptime on Trick Attack plus the WAR using Storm's path. lolololololol

I never thought about T8 and solo tank/solo heal compositions but now I'm really interested. I'm not in the mood to think of it in my head but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be 83% uptime unless Kassatsu was a thing, considering each nin still has to reapply huton every minute.

[Ehayte]

I never thought about T8 and solo tank/solo heal compositions but now I'm really interested. I'm not in the mood to think of it in my head but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be 83% uptime unless Kassatsu was a thing, considering each nin still has to reapply huton every minute.

Isn't it a 10 second buff that can be used every minute? 10+10+10+10+10=50seconds 50seconds/60seconds = .83333 or 83.33%

[Empressia]

Not sure, NIN can't apply DoTs without breaking combo like MNK, anyway those resistance debuffs didn't affect DoTs