Cash shop up!

[ButteredZombie]

Idk I personally don't consider vanity crap to be "content" as it has nothing to do with the actual game. WoW has been offering battle pets (minions) and mounts in their cash shop for years and they're doing fine. People buy them or don't and though I'm sure some people complained about it at first, they eventually got over it. Yea you're paying a sub to play the game, but do you NEED every single vanity item in the game for your playing experience to be optimal? If so, then you should re-evaluate what's important when it comes to playing a MMO. Vanity items have and always will be optional - and paying money for a few (but certainly not all) of the vanity items for any game is not a big deal (and is becoming increasingly common - even for p2p games).

[ApolloGenX]

"I've never read an MMO's ToS ever in my life!"

Care to elaborate? (What did your comment have to do with my comment?) I know what a ToS is and I only commented on what I have read others to say about the sub. Somehow that triggered you to start screaming "ToS"... I was wondering ... why?

[Dhex]

Care to elaborate?

Terms of Service - FFXIV Article 1

1. YOUR LIMITED LICENSE TO THE GAME AND SERVICE AND LACK OF OWNERSHIP RIGHTS
The Game includes software that is installed on your computer, as periodically updated by Square Enix ("Licensed Software"), as well as data that Square Enix maintains on its servers. Subject to your continued compliance with the conditions set forth in this User Agreement, Square Enix grants you a limited license to use the Game. In order to play the Game, in addition to this User Agreement, you must also agree to the FINAL FANTASY XIV Software License Agreement ("License Agreement"), which grants you a license to use the Licensed Software required to play the Game, the Square Enix Privacy Policy available at http://na.square-enix.com/privacypolicy ("Privacy Policy"), and the Square Enix Account Terms of Use. The License Agreement, Privacy Policy and Square Enix Account Terms of Use are incorporated by reference into this User Agreement (collectively, the "Agreements"). The terms of this User Agreement supersede any conflicting terms in the FINAL FANTASY XIV User Manual.
All aspects of the Game (including but not limited to the Game computer code, updates, patches, expansion packs, characters, character names, character data, virtual items, character profile information, (non-personal) account information, chat transcripts, artwork, plot, dialogue, locations, sounds and music) are owned by Square Enix or its licensors. You do not have any property rights in the service account you use to play the Game ("FINAL FANTASY XIV Service Account" or "FFXIV Service Account").

Terms of Service - FFXI Article 1

1. YOUR LIMITED LICENSE TO THE GAME AND SERVICE AND LACK OF OWNERSHIP RIGHTS
The Game includes software that is installed on your computer, as periodically updated by SQUARE ENIX (“Licensed Software”), as well as data that SQUARE ENIX maintains on its servers. Subject to your continued compliance with the conditions set out in this User Agreement, SQUARE ENIX grants you a limited license to use the Game. In order to play the Game, in addition to this User Agreement, you must also agree to the following:

the FINAL FANTASY XI Software License Agreement (“License Agreement”), which grants you a license to use the Licensed Software required to play the Game located at www.playonline.com/ff11eu/support/;
the Square Enix Online Services Privacy Policy located at http://www.square-enix.com/eu/en/privacy/. (“Privacy Policy”); and
the Square Enix Account Terms of Use located at www.playonline.com/ff11eu/support/.

Please read each of the above documents carefully. The License Agreement, Privacy Policy and Square Enix Account Terms of Use (“Related Agreements”) are incorporated by reference into this User Agreement and by agreeing to be bound by this User Agreement you agree to be bound by the terms and conditions applicable to each of the above related Agreements (the User Agreement and Related Agreements shall be collectively referred to as the “Agreements”). Where a conflict exists between the terms of this User Agreement and any terms in the Related Agreements the terms of this User Agreement shall prevail. The terms of this User Agreement shall also supersede any conflicting terms in any edition of the FINAL FANTASY XI User Manual.
We recommend that you print a copy of the Agreements for your records and that you regularly check www.playonline.com/ff11eu/support/ for any updates that may have been made to the Agreements.

All aspects of the Game (including but not limited to the Game computer code, updates, patches, expansion packs, characters, character names, character data, virtual items, character profile information, (non-personal) account information, chat transcripts, artwork, plot, dialogue, locations, sounds and music) are owned by SQUARE ENIX or its licensors. You do not have any property rights in the service account you use to play the Game (“FINAL FANTASY XI Service Account”).

YOU ACQUIRE NO OWNERSHIP OR PROPERTY RIGHTS IN ANY CHARACTER OR OTHER IN-GAME VIRTUAL GOODS, AND ARE ONLY LICENSED TO USE SUCH CHARACTERS AND GOODS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR FINAL FANTASY XI SERVICE ACCOUNT SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS SET OUT IN THE AGREEMENTS. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR FINAL FANTASY XI SERVICE ACCOUNT AND ANY VIRTUAL GOODS AND CHARACTERS DO NOT HAVE ANY MONETARY VALUE. (They put this in caps - not me.)

Terms of Service - WoW Articles 1 & 2

Grant of a Limited License to Use the Service

Subject to your agreement to and continuing compliance with the Blizzard Agreements, you may use the Service solely for your own non-commercial entertainment purposes by accessing it with an authorized, unmodified Game Client. You may not use the Service for any other purpose, or in connection with any other software.
Additional License Limitations.

The license granted to you in Section 1 is subject to the limitations set forth in Sections 1 and 2 (collectively, the “License Limitations”). Any use of the Service or the Game Client in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of Blizzard’s copyrights in and to the Game. You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:

A. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the World of Warcraft experience;

B. exploit the Game or any of its parts, including without limitation the Service, for any commercial purpose, including without limitation (a) use at a cyber cafe, computer gaming center or any other location-based site without the express written consent of Blizzard; (b) for gathering in-game currency, items or resources for sale outside the Game; or (c) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling;

C. use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, “mines,” or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information about a character or the game environment; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces;

D. modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game Client or the Service in any way not expressly authorized by Blizzard;

E. host, provide or develop matchmaking services for the Game or the Service, or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard in any way, for any purpose, including without limitation unauthorized play over the internet, network play, or as part of content aggregation networks;

F. facilitate, create or maintain any unauthorized connection to the Game or the Service, including without limitation (a) any connection to any unauthorized server that emulates, or attempts to emulate, the Service; and (b) any connection using programs or tools not expressly approved by Blizzard;

G. violate any applicable law or regulation in connection with your use of the Game Client or the Service; or

H. disrupt or assist in the disruption of (i) any computer used to support the Service (each a “Server”); or (ii) any other player's Game experience. ANY ATTEMPT BY YOU TO DISRUPT THE SERVICE OR UNDERMINE THE LEGITIMATE OPERATION OF THE GAME CLIENT MAY BE A VIOLATION OF CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LAWS.


Terms of Service - Aion (by extension NCSoft)

2. LIMITED LICENSE - SERVICE, CONTENT AND SOFTWARE LICENSED NOT SOLD

(a) The Game requires Service, Content and Software from NCSOFT. You acknowledge that You must obtain Software from NCSOFT to use the Game and that such software may have a serial code number / access key that can only be used once. You also acknowledge that You must obtain Service from NCSOFT to use the Game and You acknowledge that You are responsible for supplying any necessary communications connections (such as Internet access) and hardware to use the Game, as well as any costs or expenses related to the foregoing. You further acknowledge that NCSOFT may, in its sole and absolute discretion, allow You full or partial access to Content, including one or more Message Boards, Teams or Items, and may condition such full or partial access upon Your compliance with the provisions in Section 4 below as well as other provisions related to the foregoing.
(b) Service, Content and Software License Pre-Conditions - You acknowledge that any NCSOFT license to use Service, Content or Software is pre-conditioned upon Your agreement to comply with all provisions of this agreement. Accordingly, You also acknowledge that any NCSOFT license to use such Service, Content or Software would not exist without Your agreement to comply with all provisions of this agreement. You further acknowledge that use of the Software may require additional licenses, such as a license to any applicable operating system or other third-party software, and that You are responsible for obtaining and agreeing to any applicable third-party license before You enter into this agreement.
(c) License Grant - Any Service, Content or Software supplied by NCSOFT is licensed, not sold, by NCSOFT. All title and rights not expressly granted in this agreement, including but not limited to any IP right and the display thereof, are retained by NCSOFT and/or third-parties under agreement with NCSOFT. NCSOFT hereby grants You a revocable, non-exclusive, license for personal and non-commercial use of Service, Content and Software that is non-transferable except as permitted under Section 9(c). YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ANY SUCH LICENSE TERMINATES IMMEDIATELY IF YOU BREACH, VIOLATE, OR OTHERWISE FAIL TO COMPLY WITH EACH AND EVERY PROVISION OF THIS AGREEMENT AND HEREBY WAIVE ANY RIGHTS YOU MAY HAVE HAD TO NOTICE OF TERMINATION FROM NCSOFT. IN THE EVENT OF TERMINATION OF ANY SUCH LICENSE NCSOFT MAY, IN ITS SOLE AND ABSOLUTE DISCRETION, MODIFY OR DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT, ALL RELATED CONTENT, AND ANY CHARACTER ID.
(d) Character ID Pre-Conditions - You acknowledge that any NCSOFT license to any Character ID is pre-conditioned upon Your agreement to comply with all provisions of this agreement. Accordingly, You also acknowledge that any NCSOFT license to use such Character ID would not exist without Your agreement to comply with all provisions of this agreement. You additionally acknowledge You may not, and You will not, select any Character ID that would require any license from any third-party.
(e) The Game may also require at least one Character ID that You might, in part, be allowed to select subject to restrictions imposed in the sole and absolute discretion of NCSOFT, including but not limited to the provisions of Section 5(e) below. You acknowledge that: (i) Your license to use any Character ID, to select any Team, Account ID, NCSOFT Message Board ID, Character ID and/or Team designation, to select characteristics related to a Character ID, or to provide any communication or information on any Message Board, shall be within the sole and absolute discretion of NCSOFT; (ii) that the foregoing may be modified for any reason, at any time, and in any way by NCSOFT in its sole and absolute discretion; and (iii) that the foregoing are under license, not sold, by NCSOFT. You further acknowledge that NCSOFT may, in its sole and absolute discretion, choose to modify or to delete, or choose not to modify or not to delete, any Character ID if You are not in compliance with the provisions in Section 4 below or any other provisions related to the foregoing. You additionally acknowledge that NCSOFT has no ongoing and/or future duty to You regarding any license related to a modified or deleted Character ID.
(f) Additional License Restrictions - You acknowledge You will not, directly or indirectly, unless permitted by applicable law:
(i) reverse engineer, translate, adapt, disassemble, decompile, or reduce to any human-perceivable form, any Software or parts thereof;
(ii) copy, distribute or reproduce any Service, Content, Software, or parts thereof;
(iii) modify, or create a derivative work of, any Service, Content, Software, or parts thereof; and/or
(iv) sell, sub-license, rent, lease, grant a security interest in, borrow, lend, loan, network or engage in any activity that could in any way transfer or provide others access to any Service, Content, Software, or parts thereof, including but not limited to any serial code number, access key or the like.

[ApolloGenX]

^ Thanks for vomiting that up- but what does it have to do with the conversation? Did someone make claims of ownership somewhere? Is someone suing for custody of the Lalas??

[Dhex]

^ Thanks for vomiting that up- but what does it have to do with the conversation? Did someone make claims of ownership somewhere? Is someone suing for custody of the Lalas??

If you read any of it - which it's obvious you didn't; you'd understand that you don't own anything - you have a subscription based license to access the game. Nothing more or less.

[ApolloGenX]

If you read any of it - which it's obvious you didn't; you'd understand that you don't own anything - you have a subcription based license to access the game. Nothing more or less.

You have no idea what the discussion is, do you?

[Menchi]

You don't consider it content, however, the simple fact is, it is. What other MMO's do is irrelevant, I'd be playing them if I cared what they did.

No, I don't need them at all. I would like the option to obtain them without paying MORE money than I already pay. However, when I see the new vanity content that is introduced to the game and is obtainable in game being simple palette swaps of existing vanity items, it is very disheartening to see original looking designs they have actually put some effort into designing, locked behind a pay wall.

And "re-evaluate what's important" when it comes to playing an MMO? Isn't the idea of any game, to enjoy it, in whatever way you decide? If that is going on a collectathon and getting every minion or mount in game, then how is that any -less- important than someone who wants to raid all the time? Or someone who only plays for the story? Or someone who wants to cap every class/job/achievement?

[Gramul]

Around 20$+ is the normal price for a mount in other MMO's for example WoW.

I wouldn't call this a good thing.

[Dhex]

You have no idea what the discussion is, do you?

From what I have read, people are claiming the sub only pays for your connection. So I would propose that SE needs to put out COMPLETED expansions, so that when you pay for an expansion you get all the content... instead of half finished content, with no idea what will be added/included.

All aspects of the Game (including but not limited to the Game computer code, updates, patches, expansion packs, characters, character names, character data, virtual items, character profile information, (non-personal) account information, chat transcripts, artwork, plot, dialogue, locations, sounds and music) are owned by Square Enix or its licensors. You do not have any property rights in the service account you use to play the Game ("FINAL FANTASY XIV Service Account" or "FFXIV Service Account").

I really don't see how you're missing this.

[ApolloGenX]

I really don't see how you're missing this.

I said you will get all the content - cause it's ...you know... FINISHED. It has ZERO to do with ownership.

Seriously?

(It has to do with concerns that cash shop development will take away from development of content and the rest of the game... this way the expansion would be complete, so people would get the full experience up front, without feeling trade offs are happening behind the scenes on unfinished content)