Marauder needs a damage boost now ~

[Defmetal]

Only in FFXIV would you see players advocate for mediocre damage for slow weapons and high damage for fast weapons.

FFXIV really does need some Traits like in FFXI though, a Double Attack trait would probably fix the low damage problem even if its a low trigger rate (it was 10% base in FFXI)

[Lienn]

As long as they also do it for others classes too, and that's what they might be juggling with right now. Reducing only the MRD atacks will cause a (justified) uproar because it will give the class a much bigger advantage. They will have to find a way to balance all cooldowns or find a tradeoff.

I recall you talking about something involving steadfast, how about 50-60%% cooldown reduction while in steadfast? They would have to make it so the timer resets if you break stance while on cooldown, else there would be possible mechanic abuse.

While we're talking about Marauder here, we have to take into consideration the other jobs; if there is a change suggested to marauder we have to make sure the change can be backed up with something else than "The job is broken and needs it" or "My feee~lings", else it's not gonna work. For example introducing double-attack on a Job related to Marauder is much more easy and in design than doign an exclusive reduced cooldown on MRD basic attacks. Would you be fine with the basic attacks have a reduced cooldown or weapondelay+x ... for all classes? I know some lancers and Pugs that would love to have their pierce/light strike viable again too.

While we're all passionate about this game, we still need to think with our heads, and not our hearts. Maybe I'm thinking like that because I do work in the video game industry and know how it is behind the scenes.

Current and coming mechanics (jobs), are also something we need to factor in and see possible avenues too (my point above)

Btw, props for making the effort to keep your posts as focused as possible, makes the whole debate more enjoyable and makes the brainstorming (because we are brainstorming, right?) more efficient.

What is your native language, if I may ask?

I do am thinking about other classes. My suggestion covered all DoW and DoM basic attacks, not only MRD. I did ask moves like pierce, darts and light stab (basic actions that are mainly damage only, or situational positioning advantage) to also start following weapon delay. Actions like pummel, full thrust and heavy shot, which effect is more importantant than damage, should just stay as they are. Same for light strike...all i asked regarding light strike was to increase the buff lenght so it would last long enough to player to be able to reuse light strike and renew it (so PGLs could keep effect up fulltime, like they originally were meant to)...and all others were like this too...i never just asked the instant penaltyfree spam from before...i always had bigger penalties and restrictions suggested for classes i want really fast basic actions, just like heavy swing or flurry...and i asked HP cost, not MP on these...HP cost is the best kind of stuff to hold back reckeless playstyles! ^^ But i can say that i did reevaluate to them every single basic action from DoW and DoM...my feedback never was MRD only, even tho i do think MRD is the only one that really took damage from the change.

Well, i speak portuguese as my native language. Even tho i can read/write in english pretty well, it sometimes still fails me. =P

[Rexus]

Only in FFXIV would you see players advocate for mediocre damage for slow weapons and high damage for fast weapons.

I'm definitely not saying it should be like that, but I can see why weapons stats are tailored the way they are. If axes had as much, or more attack than lances, no one would be able to get even close to their AoE damage. Your typically used axes have higher Acc/Crit/Parry than lances. MRD has skills that enhance crit and parry rate. There are reasons why MRD weapons don't have the highest DPS.

LNC has an obvious edge over MRD DPS because...it's a pure DD job. It seems like a good chunk of people only view MRD as a DD, not a DPS Tank hyprid. Really, it's kind of scary how easily some people call 'gimp' on a class when we have just touched the surface of what classes (and eventually, jobs) are to become.

[Lienn]

I'm definitely not saying it should be like that, but I can see why weapons stats are tailored the way they are. If axes had as much, or more attack than lances, no one would be able to get even close to their AoE damage. Your typically used axes have higher Acc/Crit/Parry than lances. MRD has skills that enhance crit and parry rate. There are reasons why MRD weapons don't have the highest DPS.

LNC has an obvious edge over MRD DPS because...it's a pure DD job. It seems like a good chunk of people only view MRD as a DD, not a DPS Tank hyprid. Really, it's kind of scary how easily some people call 'gimp' on a class when we have just touched the surface of what classes (and eventually, jobs) are to become.

Now we're getting into an agreement! Agree completely with your post. MRD does wasn't designed for single target fight. It cannot WS for the same as a single target DD does because often its damage will spread against multiple targets. Its the basic of tactical board battle...when you calculate the damage you actually need to consider all targets involved... An example would be you having a dude "L" that can deal 30 damage to a single target...then you have the dude "M" who can deal 10 to 4 targets at same time. When you look straight to the main target you will say L owned M by far...30 is way stronger than 10...but if you look to battle as a whole, M actually was more effective than L because the total spread damage was of 40. This is the base where MRD was built on...the multiple targets fighter, focusing on spreading damage instead of deling optimal damage in a single target.

[Scape]

LNC has an obvious edge over MRD DPS because...it's a pure DD job. It seems like a good chunk of people only view MRD as a DD, not a DPS Tank hyprid.

IDK, LNC is more of a DPS/support job. IMO, it makes more sense with Archer having higher DPS potential because its the only thing that they can do, they don't really offer anything else to a party.

[Defmetal]

Back to the original point of the thread ... Marauder needs a damage boost. That's not to say Lancer shouldn't get one. Just two handed weapons in general should really outclass the damage of a single weapon.

Think what will happen when Dual Wield comes into effect if the system remains this way.
Two weapons dealing 75% of the damage of Marauder .... coming together for 150% more damage. Ouch.

Remember in FFXI how a dagger would deal like 20-40 damage and a Great Axe would slash for 200? That's what most people should expect from a dagger vs an axe. Because, the Axe hits once, and it might miss, but if it hits, it hits like a train. The dagger may only deal 20-40 damage, but it has a higher critical hit rate (usually) and hits way more often. Remember Thief had triple attack. So, the occasional proc for up to 120 dmg (plus crit threats) but with 150-200 delay instead of 400-600 with 200 damage. Daggers can still outclass a Great Axe or Scythe overall because it hits more often, more opportunities for hits, and a miss is not as devastating, but when they deal similar damage, with half the delay ... that was the point of this thread. It's not that Marauder is a gimp class, it's a great class, but the damage of two-hand weapons doesn't match their delay, given the damage of one-hand weapons. There is a difference in damage, but it should be a greater distance. It wasn't as noticable when all weapons attacked at a similar pace, but now that Axes are twice as slow as Daggers, but deal -similar- but still greater damage, that's where the problem comes in. Solution? Increase damage to compensate for the delays.

Just saying that Gladiators and Pugs shouldn't be hitting as close in damage to Marauders and Lancers, given the new attack delays associated with them. The easy solution, again, is to increase the damage ratio that strength gives to two hand weapons vs one hand. Like in FFXI... Strength affected your damage more on a Great Sword than it did on a Sword, but the sword hits more often.

[Lienn]

Like in FFXI...

I SO hate this point...IMO any other comment loses it value if followed by this. A dead game shouldn't be the main reference for a brand new game. If FFXI was that good ppl would be playing it still...

But indeed you got a point at your post...not about buffing MRD...but about pointing how unbalanced FFXI battle system was. When you talk about it you ALWAYS will end talking about the 2 main flaws of it...delay and multi-hit. Dual wield also was completely unbalanced there (hopefully not gonna happen here...i'm already asking for twin katanas for NINs and twin knives for THFs so they would work exactly like PGL, having 2 hits with half power, keeping them it restricted to the class and balanced...secially since both THF and NIN also might be added as PGL job anyway.) but still the main flaws were these other 2 points...multi-hit attacks and haste gear were exactly ways to make up for long delays and, in the end, they became the main effect of the game...nowadays STR worth nothing...DEX worth nothing...Atk worth nothing...if the gear don't offer haste or the weapon don't offer multi-hit effect then they worth nothing...and if they keep copying FFXI battle system this game will be fated to this too...

[Scape]

Think what will happen when Dual Wield comes into effect if the system remains this way.
Two weapons dealing 75% of the damage of Marauder .... coming together for 150% more damage. Ouch.

I wouldn't be surprised if this happened. That's exactly how it was in FFXI. I think they even swung much more then 2 times faster for the most part. And, they always seemed to be favored as being in the haste cycle over a 2hander, for whatever odd reason. Though of course they did eventually fix it. It took a very long time for them to do that though.

I SO hate this point...IMO any other comment loses it value if followed by this. A dead game shouldn't be the main reference for a brand new game. If FFXI was that good ppl would be playing it still...

ummmm where is the problem in mentioning the things XI did right(grips/2h damage)? This is their next online game after all and the majority if FFXIVs player base is XI players. And really, a dead game? You realize it has more players then XIV right? And, I do think XI was that good personally. I would still be playing it if it wasn't 9 years old graphically and if most my friends didn't move to XIV.

What the heck else are we suppose to compare FFXIV too? There is a lot of things here that needs fixing that their last game went through a long time ago. These devs should know better and we shouldn't have half the problems that we do have.

[Lienn]

If FFXI wasn't dead they wouldn't have to cut 8 servers a few months ago even tho the game still is receiving new content in a regular basis. The thing is that FFXI is saturated already...its not just the graphics. If they updated the graphics to FFXIV quality it still would have the population shrinking over time.

And when they turn this game into FFXI-2 it will be fated to follow the very same way. And about population, i really doubt FFXI has a bigger pop than this one...maybe next month we can discover this if they do a census here.

[Scape]

they still have more players even with the server merges, so whats your point? And what would be bad to be fated the way XI was? Would be pretty sweet if FFXIV could last a successful 9 years. No one here was saying FFXIV needs to be like FFXI. But when discussing what needs to be fixed in this game, FFXI is the easiest game to reference for obvious reasons.