Please do NOT alter Dark Knight AF for female characters.

[Eloah]

Nothing about the roundness of the helmet indicates she is female. You could argue about the thigh armor and her figure, but not about the roundness of the helmet. -____-

That's not what I meant, and you know it. I was stating that her helmet was given a different "structure", "motif", "something", to easily identify her as female. It could of been anything, I just pointed out it was the roundness. And truthfully, the roundness is in the entire armor set I just pointed out the helmet.

[SDaemon]

That's not what I meant, and you know it. I was stating that her helmet was given a different "structure", "motif", "something", to easily identify her as female. It could of been anything, I just pointed out it was the roundness. And truthfully, the roundness is in the entire armor set I just pointed out the helmet.

I know it? As if. You said the round motif of the helmet. Each of the judges' helmets were given a different "structure". The "roundness" of her helmet doesn't easily identify her as female.

[saber_alter]

I know it? As if. You said the round motif of the helmet. Each of the judges' helmets were given a different "structure". The "roundness" of her helmet doesn't easily identify her as female.

I notice the difference as well. all of the males have sharper, more defined edges on their helmet and armor. Whereas the armor on the right is more seamless, less defined.

honestly you could argue the frills give it away as well, but that's besides the point.

[SpookyGhost]

It's less to do with her helmet and more to do with her armor. The plates around her thighs/hips are curved, the helmet is just meant to be a balance for this. It's a very clever design, making her stand out from the others subtly and imply an air of femininity, but not so pronounced that you'd know she was female before she removes her helmet.

Also of note, Livia sas Junius was designed by the same guy as Dace (Akihiko Yoshida) and is incredibly less subtle: http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...sas_Junius.jpg

[Eloah]

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They got it

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And additionally, sorry for the, "you know it" crack, it was a little presumptuous, again sorry.

[Samcaesar]

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Do you know why they're different though? There's an intense amount of factors that contribute to it, for example genetics, eating habits, workout routines, et cetera. It's not just "Boy = More muscle Girl = More Flexibility done and done". http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1470673/original.jpg Just.. Look at the diversity in body shape, plenty of those women look muscular, plenty of them don't look flexible at all. Women and men are not monolithic groups.

Oh, so if we're talking about storage space, why not just make the model the same for everyone to save the most possible? If we're talking about optimization then making the models look different for male and female models look as different as possible?

It's simple, there isn't a lore reason for the DRG bellyhole, it's there just to be there for.. Whatever reason I'm not going to say. There's no belly hole for the AF2 to make things clear of there's no fighting style difference between male and female DRG.

Sieglinde made it farther is the point. Tarkus made it to Anor Londo before probably falling to his death, Sieglinde is able to go through Anor Londo and even gets to Ash Lake, which is an easy task. Plus.. Artorias has a few things going for him that regular undead and humans lack, particularly being much larger than a lot of folks. I mean, if we're talking regular undead/humans, Sieglinde is probably the best one sans the PC.

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Exactly, fantasy doesn't have to make sense! So if it doesn't make sense, it shouldn't make sense for both sexes. Think about it for a second, why is there a bellyhole on the girls but not the men if "Magic protects their bellys!" is a reasonable conclusion? I'm not an making argument for strict practicality and things that only make sense, I'm making an argument that if things aren't going to make sense, then they should make as little sense for the men as they do for the women.

There's a different standard minimum, but I can tell you if your female military personal isn't able to carry a certain weight limit.. They're not going to be in the army. Plus, martial art leagues are divided in plenty of ways besides just men and women, such as (And imho more important) weight class. Ultimately, a man and women with the same muscular mass should be preforming the same way. It's like.. Setting a flyweight against a heavyweight won't happen (Generally speaking, there is however open weight classes in which case a Flyweight still might be able to win against Heavyweight for a lot of reasons) for a lot of reasons even if they're both men, Does that mean Roegadyn men should have stylistically different armor than Miqo'te men? It's completely possible for a woman to be as strong as a man, it just doesn't happen often due to a lot of factors. And having taken martial arts in a mixed class, I can tell you they generally expect the best out of you, man or woman, and they sure as heck didn't seperate us by sex when sparring.

Because why bother giving the men thicker metal in the first place? In the world of fantasy where everything can be summed up by magic, why even bother walking around in gear in the first place? If magic is the answer for why metal can be thin and work, why isn't the metal just as thin on the guys?

Of course it could. You're ignoring however that I've also said "In fantasy, feel free to do whatever ridiculous thing you want to it, but if it's going to make sense on the male model (Or make little sense on the girls model) it ought to be equal for both sides." Practicality is still a relevant argument, because if it's still practical for the DRG AF to have a giant belly hole, why don't both men and women have bellyholes? It is degrading. Seriously, put a woman in a tankini top and a man in actual armor and which one are you going to take more seriously? Which one do you think is going to fight better from appearance alone? I can tell you if I (And this is in a fantasy world) saw a woman say "I'm a Dragoon! Dragons beware!" And she's going into battle in a bikini top, I'm going to have to ask her what sort of magic she's using and why the heck isn't it also on the guys? Seriously, I'd be willing to wager you'd raise a brow at a man saying "I'm a Dragoon! Dragons Beware!" and he's wearing nothing but a giant codpiece. I want women to be taken as serious as a guy is in combat while they wear armor. Armor doesn't make a man more masculine, so why should it make a women look more feminine?

I invite you to read Kate Beaton, maker of Hark! A Vagrant,'s Strong Female Character series to get a little better outlook at what I'm talking about. I won't link to it directly (Because it's a little NSFWish) but it should be the first and second result on Google.

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Having never played XII, I wouldn't have known til I noticed the little boob shape on the armor of the one on the far right, which I don't really get why they'd do that normally armor would be a bit more roomer up their to accommodate, but not have explicit boob shapes. Either way, besides that the armor looks pretty darn great on all of them, weird boob thing aside.

[silentwindfr]

i like this sort of thread that begin to say, we don't want this, but nothing say that you will get this sort of thing... since the dragoon armor (that come from the V1) they never really have done this for the plate armor

[Kosmos992k]

Not everyone who plays a girl character in this game wants to be eye candy. We've progressed a good bit past Conan the Barbarian in terms of making women in fantasy settings wear sensible armor. Considering Conan started in 1932 and Red Sonja was introduced over 30 years ago we should have progressed passed that. You've got the coliseum set if you want to show some skin, let those of us who want to play a girl character and look sensible not have to worry about that.

This point right here is why I no longer take your comments seriously, in fact it's the comment that convinced me that you are a man trying so very hard to convince someone (perhaps yourself) that you are enlightened and non sexist, and yet I think you are doing more to denigrate female characters than anyone you accuse of objectifying females.

What am I talking about? This quote;

Red Sonja was introduced over 30 years ago we should have progressed passed that

Oh really? I'm a little confused by that since Sonia gets to wear more than Conan. However this idea that we have progressed beyond that. Beyond what exactly? You repeatedly post things that seek to diminish or erase the differences between genders. No offence to you but you are delusional if you think that male physiology is not typically more muscular with a larger frame than female, biological fact is fact. Male and female are different. By seeking to deny this fundamental truth and insread diminish any difference, you are in fact putting the cause you apparently support back. How is it moving forward to deny differences rather thsn celebrate them.

Equality is not uniformity. Equality celebrates the differences between genders, because each gender has an equal chance to shine with it's own merits. That's always been one of the ironic things about traditional feminism, it seeks to make females into copies of males by making females equivalent to males - regardless of their inherent differences. Yet that is what you are preaching. A truly feminist point of view - allows females the opportunity to be as free as males without compromising their gender identity. So if Red Sonia wants to wear a scale mail bikini, she can, or if she'd rather put on plate armor, she can, because she is free of societal expectations todo one or the other. That freedom would be progress, but simply labelling the scale mail bikini as bad because it's not progress, shows how little you have progressed.

[Niwashi]

And don't bring up the DRG AF. DRG is a melee damage dealer, not a tank.

The difference between tanks and damage dealers involves their role in a party, not the kind of armour they wear. If we were discussing the gear's stats, then whether it's a tank or dd would be relevant, but we're not. We're discussing its appearance. Both Dragoon and Dark Knight are fully armoured jobs.

[Niwashi]

And again, armor isn't meant to look masculine or feminine, it's armor, which is meant to protect you, not show off all your curves and what not. If you want skin tight outfits that show off curves, go with a set that isn't meant to protect your body from attacks.

Actually, in terms of heavy plate armour, if it's supposed to be useful and protective, then it would be as skintight as the people making it are capable of making it. The way plate armour protects you is by spreading out the force of blows. You get hit by a weapon in one spot and you absorb that blow with your entire body, with the force dispersed by the larger area. Bulky armour that's not form-fitting simply can't do that nearly as effectively. With bulky ill-fitted armour, there will always be some spots where it's closer to your body than others and those same smallish spots would have to absorb all the force of every blow you're hit with.

The reason armour is at times rather bulky is simply because it's difficult and costly to shape more precisely. Most soldiers would have to settle for whatever off the rack one-size-fits-all piece of gear they might be able to get. Skin-tight armour, on the other hand, would have to be custom built to the exact size and shape of the individual it's being made for and would be pretty useless for almost anyone else. For that matter, it could become useless even to the person it was made for if they ever gained or lost weight, since metal plates won't flex to allow for such variations.

But for anyone who could get it, perfectly form-fitted armour would spread the force of blows more effectively so therefore provide much better protection than bulky armour. And at the same time, it creates far less hindrance to your movements, allowing you to fight more effectively (including to protect yourself more effectively). The fact that such well-fitted armour would match your shape well enough that it's likely to be visible which gender you are is completely irrelevant to its purpose, but no less true for that fact.



p.s. I agree with you when it comes to overly revealing armour that tries to be "feminine" by covering less of the body. That's ridiculous. It's only when you try applying that same argument to armour that's feminine simply by being well-fitted that the argument doesn't work. Well-fitted armour is effective, and in fact more so than bulky armour is.