Devs: A Monk front-facing combo. (Positional Requirement)

[Ehayte]

I see your point and I even thought about that, but now explain to me why I have no good attacks from the front?

A martial artist should be able to adapt to ALL situations as fights are spontaneous. It's very weird that a so called Monk cannot attack with any kind of authority when facing a monster head on, do you not agree?

1 - You are thinking a bit too much about lore and not enough about game balance. It would be to have everything check out 100% from a lore/practical application, but it just can't.

2 - It would be weird if a MNK couldn't be effective from in front of a mob, but I have killed numerous opponents from the front with my MNK. It WOULD be weird if I weren't MORE effective from the flank or rear. MNKs are plenty potent from the front, but if you use your positionals they are absolutely deadly.

Think about attacking someone in real life from in front of them: They can see you, they can see your movements, they can move their body slightly or dramatically to decrease the pain they feel when you hit them with your fists. Now think about attacking someone from behind: They have no way to predict where you will strike, when you will strike, how you will strike, so it will definitely be more effective, especially if you are a master of your craft.

Now, if I had a lance or some knives, I'm less affected by positional because I have an edged weapon with more reach.

[Ehayte]

Here is the point:

If you give the MNK a decreased penalty for not being in position, you decrease the skill needed to be effective as the class. In addition, if you decrease said penalty, you are also making the class a more powerful class OVERALL.

If you are tanking mobs, YOU ARE MEANT TO GET KILLED. This is a cooperative game, MNK ABSOLUTELY should NOT get abilities that allow them to go outside of the scope of their archetype. If you were able to be viable as a tank, then the would need to make BLMs, SMNs, DRGs, and NINs all able to have the same viability. This would decrease the need for an actual tank. The frontal potencies are fine as they are.

This is the main point OP is ignoring in other's posts. It simply makes them too powerful, the reason you shouldn't get the ability to do more damage from the front is because it makes you too strong. That's like saying, "As a PLD, I feel like I should get a buff to my healing potency! What if my healer dies, how will I stay alive? This happens all the time!"

/thread

Post Script:

I don't remember any other game where I could fight with my fists; where my strength lies ONLY from attacking the back and sides of a mob, that's ridiculous to me.

I've played several where all melee classes had an increased chance to miss their attacks because they were attacking from the front.

Just so you know, you are coming off as hard-headed - accusing other people of not understanding your points while totally ignoring valid concerns with this proposed change.

[Akamu_Aniketos]

Here is the point:

If you give the MNK a decreased penalty for not being in position, you decrease the skill needed to be effective as the class. In addition, if you decrease said penalty, you are also making the class a more powerful class OVERALL.

I know there would be some derps out there that will think "I can attack from the front, let me do dis all D time!" I'm pretty sure there are Monks out there right now that don't combo right, but that's on them. It would be on you to be smart enough to know that your stronger combo is NOT in front of the mob. I honestly don't see how the class would be overpowered because of a weaker frontal combo.

If you are tanking mobs, YOU ARE MEANT TO GET KILLED. This is a cooperative game, MNK ABSOLUTELY should NOT get abilities that allow them to go outside of the scope of their archetype. If you were able to be viable as a tank, then the would need to make BLMs, SMNs, DRGs, and NINs all able to have the same viability. This would decrease the need for an actual tank. The frontal potencies are fine as they are.

Monks and Dragoons should both have a frontal option, NIN's have this option:

Sneak Attack:
Delivers an attack with a potency of 300.
500 when executed in front of target.
Can only be executed when under the effect of Hide, and shares a recast timer with Trick Attack.

But if you are in a party, your go to move would be Trick Attack because it has a 10% damage increase to the target making it much more desirable:

Trick Attack:
Delivers an attack with a potency of 240.
400 when executed from behind target.
Rear Bonus: Increases target's damage taken by 10% Duration: 10s
Can only be executed when under the effect of Hide, and shares a recast timer with Sneak Attack.

The weaker combo will not turn a Monk into a viable tank, just the same way Sneak Attack isn't turning NIN into a viable tank. It's only meant for special circumstances. it wouldn't be hurting the need for tanks, trust me.

This is the main point OP is ignoring in other's posts. It simply makes them too powerful, the reason you shouldn't get the ability to do more damage from the front is because it makes you too strong. That's like saying, "As a PLD, I feel like I should get a buff to my healing potency! What if my healer dies, how will I stay alive? This happens all the time!"

Explain how taking a combo that is already in the game and making it weaker but usable from the front making a Monk over powered?

You aren't buffing anything. You are taking a combo that is already there, and making it usable from the front; but with a penalty of being much weaker to discourage you from even wanting to use it.

I've played several where all melee classes had an increased chance to miss their attacks because they were attacking from the front.

You're talking about accuracy. If we weren't bound by positionals, and all we needed was to boost accuracy I would say nothing.

[Ehayte]

I know there would be some derps out there that will think "I can attack from the front, let me do dis all D time!" I'm pretty sure there are Monks out there right now that don't combo right, but that's on them. It would be on you to be smart enough to know that your stronger combo is NOT in front of the mob. I honestly don't see how the class would be overpowered because of a weaker frontal combo.

You are totally missing the point. This is so beyond relevant to the core of this discussion. It doesn't become over-powered it becomes more powerful.

Monks and Dragoons should both have a frontal option, NIN's have this option:
Sneak Attack:
Trick Attack:

1 - X class should have this because Y class has this makes no sense. Because BLM get Flare should MNK get an AE move just as powerful? This holds absolutely no water as an argument.
2 - SA is the only skill in the game that gets a frontal bonus, because it is part of the ROG class about sneaking. Can a MNK sneak? No, so they can't do a sneaky attack that does extra potency from the from.
3 - You DO have a frontal option, you can do ALL MNK attacks from the front. ALL OF THEM. THEY ALL WORK.

The weaker combo will not turn a Monk into a viable tank, just the same way Sneak Attack isn't turning NIN into a viable tank. It's only meant for special circumstances. it wouldn't be hurting the need for tanks, trust me.

No. You don't get to tank in special circumstances. You don't get slightly reduced damage from the front in special circumstances, you get severely penalized. MNK is completely fine as it is with potency in the front. The only time they are in the front is if someone screwed up or you are soloing. If someone screwed up you pay the penalty for that. If you are solo you certainly don't need increased potency because all of the open world content is easy. SA is a ROG skill for the ROG playstyle, the fact that it exists has nothing to do with MNK skills.

Explain how taking a combo that is already in the game and making it weaker but usable from the front making a Monk over powered?

You aren't buffing anything. You are taking a combo that is already there, and making it usable from the front; but with a penalty of being much weaker to discourage you from even wanting to use it.

You're suggestions will not "over power" the MNK but its completely unnecessary. IT IS ALREADY MADE WEAKER FROM THE FRONT. THIS EXISTS.

You're talking about accuracy. If we weren't bound by positionals, and all we needed was to boost accuracy I would say nothing.

You're assuming accuracy in this game works the exact same as accuracy in other games. In other games, 100% accuracy is impossible, so making you miss more is equivalent to decreasing your potency.


You're points of "just make it weaker from the front," are ALREADY IN THE GAME:

Bootshine - Front: 150 | Rear: Auto-Crit
Twin Snakes - Front: 100 | Flank: 140
Snap Punch - Front: 140 | Flank: 180
Dragon Kick - Front: 100 | Flank: 150
True Stike - Front: 150 | Rear: 190
Demolish - Front: 30 | Rear: 70



/head explode

[Akamu_Aniketos]

1 - X class should have this because Y class has this makes no sense. Because BLM get Flare should MNK get an AE move just as powerful? This holds absolutely no water as an argument.

Really guy?

Monks should be able to attack with strength from every angle period. It has nothing to do with x class having xy. Sneak Attack is an example of a melee dps having a way to attack, with strength from the front.

2 - SA is the only skill in the game that gets a frontal bonus, because it is part of the ROG class about sneaking. Can a MNK sneak? No, so they can't do a sneaky attack that does extra potency from the from.

Exactly my point, Monks aren't Rogue's they shouldn't be heavily forced to attack only from the back or the side like a Rogue.

You're suggestions will not "over power" the MNK but its completely unnecessary. IT IS ALREADY MADE WEAKER FROM THE FRONT. THIS EXISTS.

"It simply makes them too powerful" "It makes you too strong"
So now it's not too powerful, it's just unnecessary, make up your mind.

The normal potency is too weak to not have a combo that you can use from the front. You only get the 1 minute cd steel peak to hold the target for a second to pull off 1 part of a combo, so that isn't reasonable.

[Ehayte]

Really guy?

I'm not your guy, pal.

Monks should be able to attack with strength from every angle period. It has nothing to do with x class having this, Sneak Attack is an example of a melee dps having a way to attack with strength from the front.

Why should MNKs be able to attack with strength from every angle period? Because you said so? OK, I think they shouldn't be able to do that. It seems we have hit an impasse.

Exactly my point, Monks aren't Rogue's they shouldn't be heavily forced to attack only from the back or the side like a Rogue.

You are obviously basing your definition for what a job should do oustide of the context of FFXIV. This is FFXIV, the jobs will function as they are inside of this game, not as they are in any other game.

"It simply makes them too powerful" "It makes you too strong"
So now it's not too powerful, it's just unnecessary, make up your mind.

Over-powered and "Makes them too powerful" are not the same thing, in my vernacular. I can definitely see how that is confusing and I'll apologize for that confusion. Over-powered, to me, means game-breakingly strong. I was trying to communicate that it would make MNKs stronger in situations where they could be doing things outside their defined role, but it would not increase their power IN their assigned role of DPS.

The normal potency is too weak to not have a combo that you can use from the front. You only get the 1 minute cd steel peak to hold the target for a second to pull off 1 part of a combo, so that isn't reasonable.

You. Don't. Get. To. Hold. Mobs.

MNKs are the highest single target DPS in the game, that's what you get. And Mantra. You are asking for too much from a single job, and you are framing it in what your idea of MNK should be. You are playing in SE's world, not yours.

Also - way to not address

[Akamu_Aniketos]

That Snap Punch doing 180 potency from the back doe. I've been doing it on the side this whole time, maybe I should drop my claws, and bring out the daggers.

Haha. Fixed.

[LionKing]

Hm... Not that I am against the idea but that means more acc will be required for so called 100% hit chance from the front ( hit from the front always requires higher acc for what is needed for the flank and rear), that means less focus on Det/Crit = DPS drop... I don't know, could be fun but not a compulsory.

[Akamu_Aniketos]

I don't know the accuracy differences from each side of a mob for higher content, but that's another incentive for you not to combo from the front. So it shouldn't force you to go for any more accuracy then what you have to get now. It's only meant for solo and special situations.

I'd rather have a way to attack my target from the front; with a lower chance of connecting, then to have no option other then the base potency you get stuck with now.

[Haerhee]

It's only meant for solo and special situations.

Truthfully, none of the classes in the game are meant to be played "solo". That's why all the enemies for quests that need to be tackled on your own are incredibly easy to defeat. It's why the role system exists. You don't NEED front positional bonuses because the base potency of the skills are high enough to defeat them with ease.

I'd rather have a way to attack my target from the front; with a lower chance of connecting, then to have no option other then the base potency you get stuck with now.

The thing is, the base potency is the "front potency" you're asking for. It would just make no sense to buff it. Sure, we're weaker from the front, but we're not weak enough by any means to warrant a buff to the damage.