A plea for 3.0 and beyond: Job Customization

**Failia** · 10-29-2014 05:20 AM

See, there's something people are failing to understand.

The developers want to make FF14 as unique as it possibly can. Make it their game, their baby. They can't do that by "borrowing" ideas from other games, especially from FF11. If they wanted to do that, they may as well just make a FF11-2 with a new skin. Sure, they have some similarities of course but they can't outright use the same exact system from another game and say it's there's. It would also require an entire rework of the job system as it is now, and expansions are typically used to introduce new content, not a new game entirely.

As much as you may way this game to be like others in the same genre, I don't see them implenting any kind of change to how the job system currently works.

**AlexionSkylark** · 10-29-2014 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by Failia

See, there's something people are failing to understand.

The developers want to make FF14 as unique as it possibly can. Make it their game, their baby. They can't do that by "borrowing" ideas from other games, especially from FF11. If they wanted to do that, they may as well just make a FF11-2 with a new skin. Sure, they have some similarities of course but they can't outright use the same exact system from another game and say it's there's. It would also require an entire rework of the job system as it is now, and expansions are typically used to introduce new content, not a new game entirely.

As much as you may way this game to be like others in the same genre, I don't see them implenting any kind of change to how the job system currently works.

And as for that... There was already a MMO that borrowed many ideas from FFXI. It was called FFXIV 1.0.
I really doubt they wanna go down that route anymore... lol

**Keres** · 10-29-2014 05:54 AM

I'm not a huge fan of the particular system you've proposed, but I am more generally in favor of more ways for players to differentiate themselves from other players of the same job.

**LandricFrey** · 11-06-2014 06:04 AM

A few more ideas:

A combination of FFXI and ARR.
Pick a subjob or a combination of two where you can take most of the lvl 1-30 abilities. (with a 5-10 cross-skill maximum)
Yes it is still going to result in stronger builds and cookie-cutters, though we already have requirements such as Swift Cast for healers, at least you wouldn't need to level nearly every job to be viable.

Borrowing Traits

Talent Trees
(WHM)
+1-5 points to raise all magic healing potency 1-5%
+1-5 points to reduce casting time by 5-25%
+1-3 points to increase Cure 2 potency by 5-15%
+1-2 points to increase max MP by 5-10%... and on and on.
The above would have a "Best allocation" posted somewhere, but at least every decision has some positive effect.

I'm really hoping that DRK not needing a class means that classes will be gone and something will be done for custom builds in Heavensward.

**LandricFrey** · 11-15-2014 05:02 AM

People seem to want this, but some feel it would "unbalance" jobs as they are. Currently there are cries for buffing dps classes such as a post stating that BRD is lowest and needs help, then I see another post stating SMN is lowest, even lower than BRD's. And of course the DRG post that got a official reply from someone at SE prompting all of these "buff my job now" posts. The point is that whatever changes made there will always be people complaining that their favorite job needs to be buffed. Things will never be perfectly balanced so how about we add some job playstyle choices?

**Delily** · 11-15-2014 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

Things will never be perfectly balanced so how about we add some class playstyle choices?

Because it will be nothing more than an illusion to satisfy a few people and then add in more balancing complications. In Diablo 2 and earlier versions of WoW, players had skills systems, that allowed for customization. In the current version of WoW and in D3, we do not have those. Do you know why? Because an overwhelming majority will simply choose the current best spec and play with it. Parties will force you to play that spec, and then kick you out if you don't. I never played version 1, which was a lot more open, but I've read in a few posts, this was the case, you had to have certain class and spec to participate.

What you want is something like Diablo 3 has, in which a class has access to every skill, and the gear that class is wearing determines what that's class's spec is. The caveat, however, is that Diablo 3 can be soloed, whereas FFXIV requires group play. Once group play enters the picture, the mentality of the best spec will kick in, and you won't have the choices you think you do*.

* Outside of solo play that, obviously. Or if you want to form your own group that supports your snowflake.

**Welsper59** · 11-15-2014 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

People seem to want this, but some feel it would "unbalance" jobs as they are. Currently there are cries for buffing dps classes such as a post stating that BRD is lowest and needs help, then I see another post stating SMN is lowest, even lower than BRD's. And of course the DRG post that got a official reply from someone at SE prompting all of these "buff my job now" posts. The point is that whatever changes made there will always be people complaining that their favorite job needs to be buffed. Things will never be perfectly balanced so how about we add some job playstyle choices?

The idea of choice is an illusion, at least as far as the general populous goes with how you play a game. Yes, there will be the rogue playstyle here and there, but generally speaking, any given player will simply opt to the best cookie cutter "choice" (whether because they're doing it intentionally or "forced" into it). There will always be the optimal ability that every DPS, heals, or tanks need to get to perform at their best. Is it mandatory? Probably not. Will it help them perform significantly better? Most likely. In fact, one likely "mandatory" class ability that everyone will want to take is Summon and Summon II, as those are ACN abilities, not SMN/SCH, and has zero negative impact to having out... plus it's a Carbuncle pet!

How often did you choose to have a revive while you were a class and were given the freedom to select practically any class ability? Probably not often as a physical DPS, given the low amount of MP you have to work with. Within the limitations of 5 sub-abilities, people will almost always go for the cookie cutter that helps their role, because they'd severely gimp themselves not to. If, however, they gave us 10+ actions to use (like how it is when we're a class), the likelihood is a lot higher as to the idea of customization. But then comes the fear of balance. It seems like the FFXIV dev team does not like the idea of people breaking from the trinity roles and their proper jobs. Some players are very clever about how they can optimize their freedoms, and likely will find a way to do things more efficiently than sticking to the trinity. Remember the Titan-Egi tanking for Ramuh EX? SE clearly liked that idea... /nerf.

I'm not saying the idea of options and "choice" is bad, but rather that the notion of it actually providing diversity is a fairy tale. The only way that we'd see such fantastical situations as a norm is if they were to allow us to use 10+ (if not all) class abilities without having to be selective about it. That'd be fun, but as I pointed out... it'll come with its own problems that could technically break the game.

**Verlyn** · 11-15-2014 05:36 AM

If you kept the limited cross class slots (5 max), remove the restrictions and redesign the abilities that get cross classed, using traits to buff specialists so they don't get overshadowed, this would work fantastic and avoid most of the doomsaying in this thread.

But we need to REALLY pick and choose what skills should be available to cross-class. It should bring a little of that class' ability without overshadowing what they do. PLD's can be Flash, since it still works as a threat generator, but it's got to be that PLD's is much better and they have better mitigation for the job. Cure or Cure II can work great, as long as WHM still gets all the better heals exclusively. I'd say each job should bring to the table up to three core cross class skills and two core traits. Tops. Your 5 slots must decide what skills or traits to use.

Yes, there will be FOTM builds. But you know what? Other games deal. Devs change things. Eventually a good enough balance will arise.

**Delily** · 11-15-2014 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Verlyn

Yes, there will be FOTM builds. But you know what? Other games deal. Devs change things. Eventually a good enough balance will arise.

The issue is not whether it can be done, but why. The devs could do that, and then enter in the constant re balancing dance this would cause. At the end of the day, the vast majority of players will just play the current FoTM build. Outside of the modest experimentation that happens (that leads to FoTM builds), what value did you add to the game?

**Verlyn** · 11-15-2014 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by Delily

The issue is not whether it can be done, but why. The devs could do that, and then enter in the constant re balancing dance this would cause. At the end of the day, the vast majority of players will just play the current FoTM build. Outside of the modest experimentation that happens (that leads to FoTM builds), what value did you add to the game?

Depth. Flexibility. Some experimentation. As long as there's more than one way to do things, even by the boss (which a well designed set of abilities will accomplish), then mission accomplished.

People overestimate how horrible it is to have customization that results in a few optimized solutions. There is NO customization system in existence that will not result in such a thing. That doesn't make it useless to try. The same complaints, even some of the same FOTM issues, will happen with or without the system in place. That's just a system still being refined, not a huge game destroying problem.

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