Voting with my wallet

[Razzle]

If we keep getting vanity updates in the usual quantity with the addition of some cash shop options on top of that, what will there be to complain about?

If we get +9999 str scrolls in the cash shop, in addition to the str materias we already get, what will there be to complain about?

My point still stands, you're happy (well not you personally but the group that think like that) because the stuff you like in the game dont require you to pay extra. Be it vanity, stats, or whatever.

That's not fair to people which the stuff they like in the game require them to pay extra. Be it whatever. We all pay the same amount of subscription.

[Roris]

In all honesty it'll probably be F2P once you come back but that might also deter you even more from coming back. No WoW clone/theme park MMO in history aside from WoW, the single exception, has lasted long as P2P after a cash shop was implemented. Even Rift which is an even more straight up copy of WoW, and had an expansion released while it was still P2P, went F2P after a bit more than 2 years. Seeing how ARR also takes a lot of cues from it, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it followed the same path.

[HakuroDK]

Actually no. It was Yoshi himself that made this connection with his original comments on not having a cash shop because subs would sustain the game.

You would claim that listening to Yoshi is best, but ignore his original perspective on why a game would have a cash shop.

OBJECTION!

I present to you the slides from Yoshi-P's panel at the Game Developer's Conference:

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1020179/Behind-the-Realm


I direct your attention to Slide 38 that states "The (Payment) Models Can Co-Exist", namely the bullet points that state "Commitment to either is unnecessary" and "Implementing both is also an option", implying that he never once believed that a free to play model with a cash shop and a subscription model without a cash shop had to be the only ways a game could be successful and that a subscription model with a cash shop can work.



Any comments he made on subscriptions sustaining the game was in regards to a subscription model being a more stable and steady revenue whereas cash shop revenue is significantly more erratic. The way he is implementing the cash shop has absolutely no bearing on sustenance, and is instead operating under the point "the model chosen should meet customer and market needs".

There has been a constant vocal need from the community for buyable Fantasia, Namingway Cards, and other similar character-altering items, and the community has expressed interest, through the power of their wallets, the need for digital items like the Collector's Edition items and the item codes from physical merchandise like Audio CDs, Art Books, and of course, Fanfest tickets. It's clear to me that Yoshida is opening this cash shop to meet a perceived demand for such a service.

Will Yoshida start adding good-looking vanity pieces to the cash shop? Maybe. But will it be of a significantly higher quality than those released in-game? Other than to those who are particularly anal about details, I sincerely doubt it.

[Fawkes]

If we get +9999 str scrolls in the cash shop, in addition to the str materias we already get, what will there be to complain about?

My point still stands, you're happy (well not you personally but the group that think like that) because the stuff you like in the game dont require you to pay extra. Be it vanity, stats, or whatever.

That's not fair to people which the stuff they like in the game require them to pay extra. Be it whatever. We all pay the same amount of subscription.

Pay to win affects other people's game. If I buy vanity crap your experience is not made worse. If I buy some broken stat boost item your experience can be made worse by it. And then you have to buy the item because the game is balanced for people who buy it.

I love vanity stuff, and I don't mind paying extra on top of my subscription to get it. I already have, for the soundtrack minions and moogle attire and FFXI shoes and collector's edition items. I paid extra for them all.

[Fyrebrand]

Remember when people used to defend the monthly subscription model, saying that the regular fee guaranteed full access to all game content, ensured server stability, and funded a steady flow of quality content?

Now, the popular motto is "You agreed to it in the Terms of Service, SE doesn't have to give you anything," or "The sub fee gets you access to the servers, nothing more." Also gotta love "Cash shop is a great way to support the game, stop expecting to be handed everything for free."

My, how people have changed their tune, in the week since FFXIV announced its cash shop.

[Eye_Gore]

Sice when do snarky comments count as feedback or add anything to a discussion?

And even kids have to grow up. Just because they're kids that doesn't mean that they can do and say whatever they please.

Snarky or not, its still a comment, and who are you, me, or anyone else to tell anyone what they can or cannot say?

[Dwill]

Remember when people used to defend the monthly subscription model, saying that the regular fee guaranteed full access to all game content, ensured server stability, and funded a steady flow of quality content?

Now, the popular motto is "You agreed to it in the Terms of Service, SE doesn't have to give you anything," or "The sub fee gets you access to the servers, nothing more." Also gotta love "Cash shop is a great way to support the game, stop expecting to be handed everything for free."

My, how people have changed their tune, in the week since FFXIV announced its cash shop.

My, that is some awesome generalization you did there.

[Felessan]

I guess you haven't heard that they are or will be trying to sell some kind buffs in the Asian market. Then if it goes well there, they where thinking of adding it in EU/NA side.

Cash shop exists in WoW for years and we still yet to see any meaningfull P2W option there, bumping to 90 is not it, as it's pretty irrelevant by itself (same as with FF14 actually).

XIV 2.0 will not be like 1.x, full of time sinks and non-rewarding quest/task
Failed: relic fate grind, near zero RNG drops

It was more or less a public outcry for adding more grind to relic. The first two phases had a very little grind incorporated in them, but people bitched that a) have nothing to do, b) want something cool even for non-raiders.
And the only stage that relies on RNG is atma drop, the rest is very mild or just omit rng completely.

Btw, that 0.01% is very simple math, just take 30 (plots) x 16 (wards to be), x 3 (cities), allocated among close to 2m subs (peak was touted at 2.2m).

Your math is really wrong as you assume that all people are on the one server.

Cash shop is okay because it's vanity? Why? Because you don't care about vanity and won't be buying anything from it?

Vanity was a privileged thing almost from the start, many of vanity/rare minions are completely outside of mass-market affordability, And from this point it's no better than having them in a cash shop, at least people will pay SE directly and not RMT to get gil to obtain rare fancy item.
I think that having a luxury market is a very good for ff14, but it's really are the same as cash shop - it's make some items inaccessible if you just play casually and don't invest heavily in game, be it whether additional real money or excessive time/efforts for ingame moneymaking.

[Razzle]

Pay to win affects other people's game. If I buy vanity crap your experience is not made worse.

Again, this depends of what kind of player are you. Pay to win affects players who don't "win". "Win" can be having the best stats for player X and having the coolest pet for player Y. Win means whatever makes you enjoy the game. Unless we talk about PvP advantage through cash shop, where then it's a different win XD

A player who likes vanity more than stats will care less that other people have better stats through cash items, and vice versa.

And I don't like how you compare the bonus items to cash shop ones.

[Razzle]

I think that having a luxury market is a very good for ff14, but it's really are the same as cash shop - it's make some items inaccessible if you just play casually and don't invest heavily in game, be it whether additional real money or excessive time/efforts for ingame moneymaking.

That can be said on P2W kind of shop too. Invest more money instead of time/efforts for ingame power. That way power is accesible for those investing time in game and the casuals "investing time working irl(?)" lol

Thing is "time/efforts" is what we should put into the game (AKA play it) So that's how it should be. And no one should be punished because some people RMT. Some people like to play the game and earn something they like, and not pay for it extra outside the game. If the cash shop has something I like have to pay extra for it while it's impossible to invest time/effort (aka play the game, which is btw what our subscription should pay for) in order to earn it.