Voting with my wallet

[Razzle]

Cash shop is okay because it's vanity? Why? Because you don't care about vanity and won't be buying anything from it?

Let's have it the other way around. Let's have a P2W Cash shop but have all the vanity in game. Now I don't have to buy anything from it in order to enjoy the game, so I'm completely fine with it. Wonder what about you?

Cash shop have no place in an already P2P game. Some players enjoy vanity more than they enjoy stats. Do they need to pay more to enjoy the game than you do? I think not.

[Cynfael]

Cash shop is okay because it's vanity? Why? Because you don't care about vanity and won't be buying anything from it?

Let's have it the other way around. Let's have a P2W Cash shop but have all the vanity in game. Now I don't have to buy anything from it in order to enjoy the game, so I'm completely fine with it. Wonder what about you?

Cash shop have no place in an already P2P game. Some players enjoy vanity more than they enjoy stats. Do they need to pay more to enjoy the game than you do? I think not.

Another post predicated on the assumption that vanity will suddenly become cash-shop only.

If we keep getting vanity updates in the usual quantity with the addition of some cash shop options on top of that, what will there be to complain about?

[Razzle]

If we keep getting vanity updates in the usual quantity with the addition of some cash shop options on top of that, what will there be to complain about?

If we get +9999 str scrolls in the cash shop, in addition to the str materias we already get, what will there be to complain about?

My point still stands, you're happy (well not you personally but the group that think like that) because the stuff you like in the game dont require you to pay extra. Be it vanity, stats, or whatever.

That's not fair to people which the stuff they like in the game require them to pay extra. Be it whatever. We all pay the same amount of subscription.

[Fawkes]

If we get +9999 str scrolls in the cash shop, in addition to the str materias we already get, what will there be to complain about?

My point still stands, you're happy (well not you personally but the group that think like that) because the stuff you like in the game dont require you to pay extra. Be it vanity, stats, or whatever.

That's not fair to people which the stuff they like in the game require them to pay extra. Be it whatever. We all pay the same amount of subscription.

Pay to win affects other people's game. If I buy vanity crap your experience is not made worse. If I buy some broken stat boost item your experience can be made worse by it. And then you have to buy the item because the game is balanced for people who buy it.

I love vanity stuff, and I don't mind paying extra on top of my subscription to get it. I already have, for the soundtrack minions and moogle attire and FFXI shoes and collector's edition items. I paid extra for them all.

[Razzle]

Pay to win affects other people's game. If I buy vanity crap your experience is not made worse.

Again, this depends of what kind of player are you. Pay to win affects players who don't "win". "Win" can be having the best stats for player X and having the coolest pet for player Y. Win means whatever makes you enjoy the game. Unless we talk about PvP advantage through cash shop, where then it's a different win XD

A player who likes vanity more than stats will care less that other people have better stats through cash items, and vice versa.

And I don't like how you compare the bonus items to cash shop ones.

[Fawkes]

And I don't like how you compare the bonus items to cash shop ones.

Please, explain the difference between upgrading to the digital collector's edition and buying from the cash shop.

[Razzle]

Please, explain the difference between upgrading to the digital collector's edition and buying from the cash shop.

Honestly there is not much differance, but what's your point? It doesn't mean "the "digital CE" didn't make me raise an eyebrow lol It actually did hint for me that SE is "testing the waters" concerning cash shop, if anything. Of course, I didn't support it. I actually thought it was a one-time thing, but seeing as the Cash station is going to be expanded upon and most of the players supporting it do so because the stuff in there don't really interest them and they won't have to pay extra for it, are pretty selfish, and I just point that out and voice my concern.

[Felessan]

I guess you haven't heard that they are or will be trying to sell some kind buffs in the Asian market. Then if it goes well there, they where thinking of adding it in EU/NA side.

Cash shop exists in WoW for years and we still yet to see any meaningfull P2W option there, bumping to 90 is not it, as it's pretty irrelevant by itself (same as with FF14 actually).

XIV 2.0 will not be like 1.x, full of time sinks and non-rewarding quest/task
Failed: relic fate grind, near zero RNG drops

It was more or less a public outcry for adding more grind to relic. The first two phases had a very little grind incorporated in them, but people bitched that a) have nothing to do, b) want something cool even for non-raiders.
And the only stage that relies on RNG is atma drop, the rest is very mild or just omit rng completely.

Btw, that 0.01% is very simple math, just take 30 (plots) x 16 (wards to be), x 3 (cities), allocated among close to 2m subs (peak was touted at 2.2m).

Your math is really wrong as you assume that all people are on the one server.

Cash shop is okay because it's vanity? Why? Because you don't care about vanity and won't be buying anything from it?

Vanity was a privileged thing almost from the start, many of vanity/rare minions are completely outside of mass-market affordability, And from this point it's no better than having them in a cash shop, at least people will pay SE directly and not RMT to get gil to obtain rare fancy item.
I think that having a luxury market is a very good for ff14, but it's really are the same as cash shop - it's make some items inaccessible if you just play casually and don't invest heavily in game, be it whether additional real money or excessive time/efforts for ingame moneymaking.

[Razzle]

I think that having a luxury market is a very good for ff14, but it's really are the same as cash shop - it's make some items inaccessible if you just play casually and don't invest heavily in game, be it whether additional real money or excessive time/efforts for ingame moneymaking.

That can be said on P2W kind of shop too. Invest more money instead of time/efforts for ingame power. That way power is accesible for those investing time in game and the casuals "investing time working irl(?)" lol

Thing is "time/efforts" is what we should put into the game (AKA play it) So that's how it should be. And no one should be punished because some people RMT. Some people like to play the game and earn something they like, and not pay for it extra outside the game. If the cash shop has something I like have to pay extra for it while it's impossible to invest time/effort (aka play the game, which is btw what our subscription should pay for) in order to earn it.

[Fyrebrand]

Vanity was a privileged thing almost from the start, many of vanity/rare minions are completely outside of mass-market affordability, And from this point it's no better than having them in a cash shop, at least people will pay SE directly and not RMT to get gil to obtain rare fancy item.
I think that having a luxury market is a very good for ff14, but it's really are the same as cash shop - it's make some items inaccessible if you just play casually and don't invest heavily in game, be it whether additional real money or excessive time/efforts for ingame moneymaking.

In other words, whenever there is a failing in the game, the solution is not to make the game better but to expect the players to pay extra money to attain their in-game goals. You are asking for gindy gameplay to remain grindy, unaffordable items to remain unaffordable, and an endgame market you call "the same as cash shop" to simply remain the status quo. So, the only people who can flourish in FFXIV are the top minority of hardcore players, and those who blow extra cash in the shop. That is what you are advocating?

I would rather SE had an actual motivation to improve the game, not just sell us the cure to a disease they created.