Thank you SE!! (DF lockout)

[Riviere]

there´ll be soo many dissapointed faces when it comes out that this system wont work....Dont be too happy about that. as long as there is no penalty for being kicked, all we´ll get are tons more of those "afkers" waiting for you to kick them to bypass the Penalty

This is what I'm thinking now, but still I'm pretty sure people would prefer to be in the dungeon already than clicking Ready over and over and over and over again until the end of time.

[Coldheart]

DF lockout is a great idea.

An harsh punishment would be a lockout after just one withdraw / time out. Everyone could have an emergency or simply forget to check the confirmation window.

But 3 whitdraws /time out per day after the Duty Ready confirmation window deserves a lockout penalty.

[Mykll]

In addition, don't show the actual progress of the dungeon. CT/ST was changed to showing 0/1 only, no matter what the progression level was. That should be the standard for all dungeons. This will further reduce fishing for "last boss only" runs, and will prevent people dodging "bad" in progress runs like 0/3 or 0/4, which is arguably where people need the most help.

ONLY if they can allow direct invites to the dungeon. The progress is the only way I know I might be getting someone's dungeon run to help them out to finish. Otherwise, it will be enter, look around, wrong group, leave. Queue up again, enter, look around, wrong party, leave. Yet another bad decision from SE that we cannot invite directly into a dungeon. That is the only time I have ever fished.

And because of their bad decision making, I might be punished starting Tuesday to help friends out. Many times it takes several fresh run withdraws, in order to get the partial run I wanted to help someone out. Which is bad. The partial run should have taken priority and been in front of the queue to begin with.

[Snugglebutt]

ONLY if they can allow direct invites to the dungeon. The progress is the only way I know I might be getting someone's dungeon run to help them out to finish. Otherwise, it will be enter, look around, wrong group, leave. Queue up again, enter, look around, wrong party, leave. Yet another bad decision from SE that we cannot invite directly into a dungeon. That is the only time I have ever fished.

And because of their bad decision making, I might be punished starting Tuesday to help friends out. Many times it takes several fresh run withdraws, in order to get the partial run I wanted to help someone out. Which is bad. The partial run should have taken priority and been in front of the queue to begin with.

You would rightly deserve to be punished for doing so in my opinion even if not everyone will agree and the reason is all those groups you enter and ditch in an effort to find someone specific is screwing with all those other people in those other groups. If going to join an in progress run then help the people you first join with or don't join in the first place, the friend would probably get someone come in and help even if it is not you and if they don't then help them run it again after they finish the current run only this time help from the beginning instead of trolling all those other groups trying to find your friend.

Way too many people abuse the system while trying to fish for things like final boss only, consider yourself a casualty of war if you feel like it punishes you alongside them but while it might seem mean...I have very little sympathy for those who fish for a friends group anymore so than those who fish for final boss since I still consider it trolling a lot of other groups while searching for their friend. I have no problem with adding an invite function to an already in dungeon running group and it would be a good idea to have such but as the system works currently without it your annoying the many groups you pass through on the way to finding your specific one.

[Mykll]

You would rightly deserve to be punished for doing so in my opinion even if not everyone will agree and the reason is all those groups you enter and ditch in an effort to find someone specific is screwing with all those other people in those other groups. If going to join an in progress run then help the people you first join with or don't join in the first place, the friend would probably get someone come in and help even if it is not you and if they don't then help them run it again after they finish the current run only this time help from the beginning instead of trolling all those other groups trying to find your friend.

Way too many people abuse the system while trying to fish for things like final boss only, consider yourself a casualty of war if you feel like it punishes you alongside them but while it might seem mean...I have very little sympathy for those who fish for a friends group anymore so than those who fish for final boss since I still consider it trolling a lot of other groups while searching for their friend. I have no problem with adding an invite function to an already in dungeon running group and it would be a good idea to have such but as the system works currently without it your annoying the many groups you pass through on the way to finding your specific one.

I'll consider myself and everyone a casualty of a bad system. If I KNOW there is an in progress, why is that not the front of the queue ahead of a fresh group that has not even started yet?

If the friend already had to wait hours, or myself had to wait hours as a dps to get into something, and I can easily offer to swap to tank or healer, knowing my then empty dps slot would fill up faster, why would I think staying in as dps instead of changing roles for the group, or letting someone I know rot waiting for a replacement or starting over at the back of the line for a new run, that we would get a replacement before the dungeon timer runs out, when we/they already waited longer than the timer just to get in to begin with?

You agree with a system to have direct invites. If that happened that I would bypass the groups I am not looking for. Same as me trying to help a friend, or me offering to swap from dps to a tank/healer so the current group can continue instead of starting over at the end of the line, because I am not blind to long queue times. We want the same thing and it is just splitting hairs with the same end result, except the groups that I withdraw never know that I "withdrew" and passed them up with a direct invite to the dungeon.

[Snugglebutt]

You agree with a system to have direct invites. If that happened that I would bypass the groups I am not looking for. Same as me trying to help a friend, or me offering to swap from dps to a tank/healer so the current group can continue instead of starting over at the end of the line, because I am not blind to long queue times. We want the same thing and it is just splitting hairs with the same end result, except the groups that I withdraw never know that I "withdrew" and passed them up with a direct invite to the dungeon.

Yes I agree an invite function would be good but until that time with the current system people who keep ditching groups and ditching queues should be punished, we have the punishment for those who ditch in progress via a 30 minute lockout and now we have a punishment for those who keep trolling, abusing or ditching the groups when the window pops up to start a run.

These punishments are good incentive to stop people doing those things which annoy a vast amount of people. If they add an invite function, great but this latest punishment is merely a step in the right direction to solve a multitude of problems...what you do adds to this problem even if unintentionally, this latest measure does not solve all the problems and solution to your specific aspect which currently adds to the problem this is trying to deter may come about further down the line. I consider it one step of many they will probably introduce over time.

The current amount of time locked out from withdrawing constantly over and over is debatable but what is not as far as I am concerned is the need for a lockout punishment for such actions and a three strike rule seems fair amount of chances to stop abusing, trolling or annoying the other members of groups.

[BobbinT]

You would rightly deserve to be punished...

So... you think anyone who DF-ing for like more than half hours and missed their commence by accident because no one in right mind staring the screen that long unless he/she got not life, and have to re-DF again are not punishable enough?

there are many other things in game could do which fills time while queuing.

and please enlight us those "things" that are risk-free and not mind-numbingly boredom-fest.

[Purrfectstorm]

I think this system will backfire but I'm willing to see what it's like. The reason I think this is a bad idea is it seems to be based on the following logic:

1) The people who are withdrawing are the same people. It seems like so many people are queueing at once that you can have several withdrawn queues from entirely different people. I don't think in-progress fishing or trolling happens that much.

2) If there is a penalty timer, people won't withdraw. I enjoy doing tons of things in FFXIV and I'm not going to do something I don't enjoy just because of a penalty timer. I've never once stayed in a dungeon that was a completely miserable experience just because "OMG 30 min penalty!" But I mainly tank so I'm sure the faster queues make a difference. So it seems like the penalty timers penalize some roles more than others. Anyway, people who get penalized will just do something else they enjoy be it crafting, hunts, doing real life stuff, or just playing a different game.

3) Withdrawing from a queue only happens under exceptional circumstances (e.g. an emergency). Since SE announced this change I've been mentally counting the "strikes" this new system would give me. Let's see, I got one today because I went to the bathroom, another because an FC member wanted to join our party after a queue already went through, and a third because I was in a long queue and figured I had time to craft a 100k item. In the last case, I had a choice: lose the 100k item or get a "strike." I decided to withdraw from the queue.

So in conclusion, one thing that makes long queues tolerable is that you can do other things: craft, gather, fates, go to the bathroom. For a DPS this system is especially harsh since the queues are so much longer. Now one solution is to just not queue if you can't be glued to your screen but that is pretty unfun (kind of the opposite of what playing a game should be about). Another solution is to just not play

I don't think this system will have a very noticeable effect on my playing habits. I'll withdraw from queues if something important comes up (that might simply be finishing a crafting synth). If the only fun thing I can do is queue and I can't do that, I'll just log out. If the penalty is too great and I incur it too often, I just won't play. This is yet another issue that DPS will feel the most because it means less tanks in circulation. If I miss a queue, it's annoying, you go back into queue, your time is wasted. I understand that. I just think that more time will be wasted waiting on tanks who aren't planning on changing how they play the game but can't requeue because of the penalty timer.

Pretty sure this system will either have no effect whatsoever or will have a negative effect. I don't see how anything good will come of it.

Edit: Possible exception if the penalty timer is like a minute or something (which is enough to disrupt in progress fishing and trolling I think).

Edit #2: Also, I'm on PS3 and it sometimes takes 40 seconds to load into a zone, so if I'm zoning when a queue pops and don't react fast enough I could miss it.

[Snugglebutt]

So... you think anyone who DF-ing for like more than half hours and missed their commence by accident because no one in right mind staring the screen that long unless he/she got not life, and have to re-DF again are not punishable enough?

Given if you miss one or two times you do not get this new punishment, then yes because clearly you don't care very much for missing the commencement if you do it over and over again despite missing the previous times. That's why it is not a punishment for timing out or withdrawing for first few times, most people with some common sense would learn from their mistakes not constantly repeat them over and over again in the same day and especially if they actually cared about it.

[BobbinT]

Given if you miss one or two times you do not get this new punishment, then yes because clearly you don't care very much for missing the commencement if you do it over and over again despite missing the previous times. That's why it is not a punishment for timing out or withdrawing for first few times, most people with some common sense would learn from their mistakes not constantly repeat them over and over again in the same day and especially if they actually cared about it.

Define "care".

and yeah, you still haven't give that example of safe "things" you can do.