Thank you SE!! (DF lockout)

[Fornix]

How is this related to clicking withdraw or not clicking when the DF pops? They can still join progress. And if they joined the wrong one, they can ask for vote kick or leave and join again and never have to incur a withdraw strike for not commencing with the DF. Seriously this is completely unrelated.

Because the join in progress toggle means not "join in progress only". But rather it means "join new or in progress".

Whenever FC mates would ask for a tank after theirs ditched them, I would frequently get in the range of 10 ~ 20 new runs prior to getting an ongoing run. Often being the one my guildies were in.

Don't ask me why the join in progress toggle doesn't allow players to join in for only in progress runs. SE logic I guess. Just as much logic as such a penalty as this over missing 3 pops in an entire 24 hours. When it comes to the way the DF functions, there's a lot left to be desired. And these sort of updates aren't making it any better.

Once I've capped all my leveling classes to 50, I'll be letting it pass completely in its current state.

[LineageRazor]

Whenever FC mates would ask for a tank after theirs ditched them, I would frequently get in the range of 10 ~ 20 new runs prior to getting an ongoing run. Often being the one my guildies were in.

The solution to this problem is not to to add an "In Progress Only" button. The solution is to make in-progress runs the priority when the "Join In Progress" checkbox is selected. The way it SHOULD work:

1. Player selects "Join In Progress" checkbox and signs up.
2. System checks for in-progress runs that require the player's current class. If it finds some, the player is added to the in-progress run that has waited for a member the longest.
3. If there are no in-progress runs that require the player's current class, it checks for new runs that require the player's current class. If it finds some, the player is added to the new run that has waited for a member the longest.
4. If there are no eligable runs, the player is added to the wait queue.

It is frankly astonishing to me that SE did not code it this way; for in-progress runs, the dungeon clock is ticking and empty slots should be filled as a top priority, well beyond new runs. Nevertheless, this does not warrant the addition of an "In Progress Only" button, it warrants a correction on how duty finder matching works.

Well that's a relief to hear. So is it a 30minute lockout everytime you leave the duty? I don't understand how the 24hr lockout works with that.

My presumption: You get two penalty-free withdrawls per day. Beyond that, each time you withdraw incurs a 30-minute penalty until the 24-hour lockout expires, at which point you get two more freebie withdrawls to spend.

[LittleArrow]

...My presumption: You get two penalty-free withdrawls per day. Beyond that, each time you withdraw incurs a 30-minute penalty until the 24-hour lockout expires, at which point you get two more freebie withdrawls to spend.

Ok that makes sense. Thanks so much ^^

[Giantbane]

The solution to this problem is not to to add an "In Progress Only" button. The solution is to make in-progress runs the priority when the "Join In Progress" checkbox is selected. The way it SHOULD work:

1. Player selects "Join In Progress" checkbox and signs up.
2. System checks for in-progress runs that require the player's current class. If it finds some, the player is added to the in-progress run that has waited for a member the longest.
3. If there are no in-progress runs that require the player's current class, it checks for new runs that require the player's current class. If it finds some, the player is added to the new run that has waited for a member the longest.
4. If there are no eligable runs, the player is added to the wait queue.

It is frankly astonishing to me that SE did not code it this way; for in-progress runs, the dungeon clock is ticking and empty slots should be filled as a top priority, well beyond new runs. Nevertheless, this does not warrant the addition of an "In Progress Only" button, it warrants a correction on how duty finder matching works.

I'm pretty sure it works like this, actually. Often when I get in progress runs, the queue pop is *instant*, there is literally no down time, I just hit queue and it pops. Even when I'm queuing as a tank, the matchmaker never pops that fast for a fresh run. If you're getting in a situation where you're trying to join a friend's group, it may be that the matchmaker has already offered that in progress run to another person in the queue, and won't offer it again until that person drops the queue. During that time, it will still pop fresh instances for those in the front of the line.

In progress only is a more elegant solution than this 3 withdraws in a day penalty because it gets all of the major offenders (in progress queue fishers) and puts them in their own matchmaking pool away from everyone else. And it doesn't really reward them as they will be stuck queuing against each other for probably longer than it would have taken for them to just join a fresh run.

Although, even with an in progress only option, I still think there should be a withdrawl penalty, but I think it should be a much shorter time span (1-3hrs) and for a shorter duration (10-15min).

[Limecat]

It is frankly astonishing to me that SE did not code it this way; for in-progress runs, the dungeon clock is ticking and empty slots should be filled as a top priority, well beyond new runs. Nevertheless, this does not warrant the addition of an "In Progress Only" button, it warrants a correction on how duty finder matching works.

Actually, it used to work that way, but when enough people complained about progress fishing, SE fiddled with it a bit. Near as I can tell it still treats in-progress runs as highest priority when you specifically select the dungeon, but in-progress is given last priority for roulette queues.

[DracotheDragon]

a whole 24 hours for saying no 3 times .. i do like this but also dislike this, 3 times is a very short number,

think about it this way lets say you have a long queue and you pop off for the bathroom and it pops (1) ok so lets try again, oh wait i was called away .. the queue hasn't popped i won't be a minute it pops while your gone (2) ok re queue this one seems shorter wait "90K'd" but i'm still logged in (3 logged in DC'ing character didn't accept when it popped) with this short example the 3 strikes rule can be very bad

mayby.. 10 strikes in 24 hours? something still small but enough to account for all the small errors.

or hey maybe a after the 3rd time you get incrusting blocks 3: 5 mins 4: 10 mins 5: 15 mins: etc

[Noxifer]

is the df lock out for some time or rest of day?

They haven't said anything specific regarding the lock-out, which leads me to believe it'd be the same lockout as the penalty for leaving an instance (i.e. 30 minutes). That's just my guess, though.

a whole 24 hours for saying no 3 times .. i do like this but also dislike this, 3 times is a very short number, [...]
or hey maybe a after the 3rd time you get incrusting blocks 3: 5 mins 4: 10 mins 5: 15 mins: etc

I think I can say with some certainty that it's not going to be a lock-out until the dropout reset. Why? Because the wording was "Withdraw from the Duty Ready confirmation window or allow the window to time out without making a selection three times or more in one day". If you get a lock-out for the rest of the day, you're not going to withdraw more than three times because you won't be able to queue up again after that. So the "or more" part wouldn't even have been there.

I like your theory about an increment in duration of lock-out. It would also be an interesting way for them to do it, but I'm still leaning more towards them taking the easiest way out and applying the same lock-out that already exists as a penalty instead of coding in a new one.


And for those of you that worry that the penalty will apply if you withdraw from queueing, the patch notes state that you have to withdraw/time out from the Duty Ready confirmation window (see above). Which means when the queue pops, not when you enter queue.

[Kaze3434]

a whole 24 hours for saying no 3 times .. i do like this but also dislike this, 3 times is a very short number,

think about it this way lets say you have a long queue and you pop off for the bathroom and it pops (1) ok so lets try again, oh wait i was called away .. the queue hasn't popped i won't be a minute it pops while your gone (2) ok re queue this one seems shorter wait "90K'd" but i'm still logged in (3 logged in DC'ing character didn't accept when it popped) with this short example the 3 strikes rule can be very bad

mayby.. 10 strikes in 24 hours? something still small but enough to account for all the small errors.

or hey maybe a after the 3rd time you get incrusting blocks 3: 5 mins 4: 10 mins 5: 15 mins: etc

please show me where it say the lock out is 24 hours?(you wont find it). 3 times or more in one day. meaning the lockout is logically shorter than 24 hours.

[Cynfael]

When I see arguments like "Well, what if I need to withdraw because I didn't feel like watching my queue?" or "What if I'm in the middle of crafting something really important?", I just don't understand the thought process behind them.

If you simply must do something while queued that precludes you being able to accept your window, no worries: you can do that once more before you suffer an as-yet-unknown penalty.

If you find yourself getting regular DF penalties due to your penchant for remaining in DF queues while engaged in incompatible activities, it's probably about time to revise your playing habits, because you've probably been annoying the living shit out of random people for months now with your chronic vanishing act.

[Fornix]

When I see arguments like "Well, what if I need to withdraw because I didn't feel like watching my queue?" or "What if I'm in the middle of crafting something really important?", I just don't understand the thought process behind them.

If you simply must do something while queued that precludes you being able to accept your window, no worries: you can do that once more before you suffer an as-yet-unknown penalty.

If you find yourself getting regular DF penalties due to your penchant for remaining in DF queues while engaged in incompatible activities, it's probably about time to revise your playing habits, because you've probably been annoying the living shit out of random people for months now with your chronic vanishing act.

Yes, let's just stand idle whilst standing in a DF queue for 15 ~ 30 minutes. As that is the way the game is meant to be played. The entire 3 strikes within a 24 hour limit is quite simply put a terrible choice. It's by far too easy to achieve 3 misses during a longer play session. Very little thought went into this decision, in an attempt to just get a few ST running QQ'ers to shut up without realizing possible implications for legit players who miss accept buttons as they're mid-crafts, briefly AFK while their timer said they had an average of 15 minutes to go still, etc.

SE should think things through and either:

1) greatly reduce the time frame in which points are allocated, to something around 60 minutes rather than 24 hours.
2) reset the given points upon successfully entering a dungeon.
3) let the "join in progress" toggle actually join in progress dungeons only, so people wouldn't be fishing in the first place.
4) greatly extend the accept timer to around 3 minutes ensuring ongoing activities can be finished.