Thread: Remove the Class System in 3.0

Originally Posted by Balipu

What? Did you do a thread like this in every subforum?
Renowned orders like the dragoons and the monks don't want to talk to novices who can barely hold a weapon. Get over it.
Wanna now why the class system stays? A new class will come next week. SE won't add to a system that will disappear in the forseeable future.

To be fair it's possible, in 1.0 they spent 3-6 months making gear for 1.0 even though they wouldn't use any of those resources once 2.0 hit, so it's not hard to consider that while we have Rogue/NIN now that comes 3.0 they won't change the class system.

The reason why it wouldn't change now with the release of a new class is two reason, it's patch 2.4 and patch 3.0 won't hit til spring 2015, that's still a 5-6 months away nearly half a year. So with the time in between and if expansions work anything like XI another group is currently working on the expansion.

For a little info with XI the expansion packs were done by different teams, when one dev group was working on the game another group worked on making the expansion pack and then they switched places when the expansion hit, the other group would make the expansion pack and the group who made the expansion pack would patch the updates for that content which they worked on.

If 14 has the same group split then those working on 3.0 might have also been working on a system to revamp the class system however it's something that wouldn't be done til 3.0 hits which means that they could either not release ROG/NIN til 3.0 or release it with their current system in mind and then revamp it come 2015.

Heck look at WoW for example, how many times have they changed their systems, the way skill trees worked, the implementation of becoming stronger etc etc. MMOs are a very flexible design so what we see now can drastically change in 6 months. But like all things it takes time to produce it and because it takes time the devs have to consider is it better to just scrap ROG/NIN for what it is or release it now and make said changes come 3.0.

Originally Posted by Airget

Heck look at WoW for example, how many times have they changed their systems, the way skill trees worked, the implementation of becoming stronger etc etc. MMOs are a very flexible design so what we see now can drastically change in 6 months. But like all things it takes time to produce it and because it takes time the devs have to consider is it better to just scrap ROG/NIN for what it is or release it now and make said changes come 3.0.

Yes it changed every x-pack. And everyone except for Metzen hates the current one. It's a sure sign that wow is indeed dying that they can't create a progression system (the very essence of MMORPGs) that survives for more than a year. I love the fealing of progressing from a simple lancer into an effin dragoon. Or from a lowly pugilist into a monk.

I like classes, simply because it makes the Job feel more special from a lore perspective. Lots of people are thaumaturges, anyone can train to be one! But you're a black mage because you're awesome. So it gets "discarded" in usage. I don't really think that's a bad thing.

The second reason is that I like one class being able to split into different roles like Summoner and Scholar. They should keep doing that, they just need to make bonus points a per-job thing when the split causes you to use a new primary stat.
The idea you're limiting jobs to X weapons or Y skills is artificial and fixable.

Originally Posted by Mysteran

I focused on Scholar before anything in 2.0, was my first 50. And you know what? I magically had a level 50 Summoner too that I just had to do a handful of quests to unlock.

no, you have a lv 50 ACN; and that ACN learned SMN and SCH skills, through job stones. you just did the same thing with SMN, as you did with SCH.
you don't level up SCH, you lv up ACN.
you don't lv up PLD, you lv up GLD; as such, if DRK comes from GLD, then you already know how to use a sword, so you just unlock your DRK skills from quests, like with every other job.
classes=wep skill level, which is why classes are tied to weps.

Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Also, classes should have extremely open cross-class ability access, while jobs should be extremely narrow (perhaps only allow skills from the primary class and the secondary class). Add in generalized high-level class gear that can be crafted, and you've got a workable system.

This is basically how 1.23's style was. You could set the majority of things if you had access to them--Gladiators could set nukes if they wanted, but a Pld was limited only to the main job and cross job actions.

Originally Posted by Mysteran

Your example brings up the big problem with it. Summoner and Scholar. I focused on Scholar before anything in 2.0, was my first 50. And you know what? I magically had a level 50 Summoner too that I just had to do a handful of quests to unlock.

I see that as an advantage, not a problem. It gives people flexibility and saves time. It also makes it easier to try a new role which might help generate new tanks or healers and keep people interested.

I would say give the Class system time to expand. It does no harm to the game being there. You are going on a progressive route to 50 ability and level wise. Not to mention, what Yoshi-P said during the expansion announcements was "New Jobs", meaning possibly just new jobs attached to a previous class. Only thing SE really needs to change is letting you allocate stats within a job and not the class itself.

Originally Posted by Mysteran

My real disagreement with the system they have in place now is that the class and job share levels. I'd love to see you unlock a new job but it starts at level 1 (or hey, it starts at 30, why not...) but has its own advancement in levels from there. Your example brings up the big problem with it. Summoner and Scholar. I focused on Scholar before anything in 2.0, was my first 50. And you know what? I magically had a level 50 Summoner too that I just had to do a handful of quests to unlock.

It'll be the same if they add new jobs to existing classes if the system stays as is. Something has to change. If, for example, in 3.0 they add Dark Knight as a job for... i dunno. Lets say Gladiator because swords (Really, Just using it as an example, not saying it will or should be this class or anything of the sort). That means a level 50 Paladin just has to do about five quests or so, then they have a level 50 Dark Knight.

That PLD still needs to get gear for DRK, assuming DRK is the melee DPS counterpart. Which arguably is the hard part of getting a character ready, not necessarily the route from 1-50.

Make classes into seperate jobs. Revamp the skill sets.