Hey, Sincerely Thank You SE for easing up on Coil

[Kinseykinz]

This view point fails to address that removing the lockout will turn run selling into a pandemic that cheapens it for everyone.

THAT is also SE's and not my problem. Maybe they should address, and actually do something about selling runs....OR they could accept it as par for the course as they do for everything else, also, runs will (and are) still being sold. Keeping people out of the content so things may or may not happen is absurd.

And you don't know what you're talking about. EX primals, and all other content can be 'sold' if people desire to sell and buy. And are...and it's not a pendemic...the very thing that makes coil runs valuable in the first place is their 'exclusive' nature. Getting rid of the 'exclusive' lock outs, lowers their presumed value (at least as a sold run), and thus, selling them won't be widespread. (Basically, the reason people can charge through the nose for them is because they can only run 1 person through on their character AND typically give up any drops to said person...so you are basically paying them for 'giving you' their lotting rights) Currently, People are interested in buying them just so they can progress....because they see it as an only albeit, desperate option. SE NOT unlocking the content, is making a situation where people are desperate. How sad is that?

Also, I don't care if they 'need time' to make resources....they've had over a year to create the resources...and they have failed miserably. They have been rolling in sub fees the entire time...IE they HAVE been making money, it's beyond hogwash to say 'sorry guys, we just aren't investing in our infrastucture so you need to wait' Any other service or business that did this too you, you would tell off and find something else. IE, if you're willing to pay your cable company for HBO, and they say 'sorry, we gave out all of our available HBO packages...maybe you can get it in 4 months...you'd likely be pissed. It's THEIR job to make sure every customer has access to the SAME content provided they pay for the service and meet the requirements. If you beat T5, you should be able to DF T6. If you have the gil, you should be able to buy a house.

PS: All BC coil 2 drops are total over-kill and not needed to complete current content...you only need that crap, come 2.4....when Ironically, you could farm it all in a week if you so desired. So even the gear isn't a 'OMG the game will be broken!' thing...it's a 'we need to slow them down so they don't get bored and leave thing' Well right now, there's a bunch of bored people who aren't logging in because they cannot even enter it. Either way, people are either burnt out on the content....or sick and tired of waiting for access they should have had the entire time. I could give two craps about the gear...I want to see the story, it's the only reason I play.

[Coatl]

This view point fails to address that removing the lockout will turn run selling into a pandemic that cheapens it for everyone..

Meh. I don't care what group makes 50m off selling coil runs to players who will move onto final coil. I just want to be able to help my friends with coil.

The gil will sink into vanity items and the players who paid for their win will either have to straighten up for Final Coil or get left behind anyway.

[Exstal]

As far as it seems, SE only cares about people getting carried to obtain gear they shouldn't have en masse. It's not like 15,000 people are buying their way into Final Coil. So it doesn't really matter that much yet when Binding Coil was unlocked enough people cleared it that SE decided that 30% echo was not going to be implemented.

[Tiggy]

...and it's not a pendemic...

Yet. That was my entire point is that it would get worse. You call me wrong and you clearly missed the point. The rest of your post is just plugging your ears, complaining, and not caring what-so-ever what that means like your complaints are easily fixed. You even go as far as to say it's not your problem. Reconnect yourself with reality a bit more.

stuff

Some are low skill. Some are just too casual. It's not an insult unless you take offense and being called exactly what you are. If those titles bother you even when they are perfectly descriptive then you need thicker skin in life. Not every label is instantly derogatory. Sometimes labels are requires simply to easily talk about a group of people and in this context many people don't complete coil due to lack of time (casual) or because they have trouble completing mechanics (low skill). By all means please create a new term we can use to refer to the non-raiding group. If the community picks it up we'd all be better for it.

Labels aren't the problem though. It's acting on the prejudice and stereotypes that come with those raiders. Your post and the "jokes" you listed are a great example of those stereotypes in action and being continually propagated. It's also a great example of how the casual/lowskill white knights use insults against raiders like their justified for being nasty to the other group. Your not. Thank you for being a great example of what's wrong with how people treat one another. No respect. No understanding. Just disparaging jokes, and you probably think you're actually helping too. You're only helping build animosity.

Believe it or not, I actually didn't receive a warning the last time everyone got riled up for 5 pages about that joke.

This tells me you definitely knew ahead of time that what you were doing was divisive and morally on sketchy ground. The worst.

[Akuryu]

Even in XI they never went easy on ENDGAME stuff.

That's your nostalgia goggles talking. Chains of Promathia was nerfed REPEATEDLY.

[Kasue]

My view on this case..

If you want to have the cake, you better darn prepare for the journey.
Gear up > Find people > Set up times > Practice Practice Practice.
When you reach and clear you get the cake, until then no.

If you dont have the patience to do any of the upper cases you can just skip straight to the cake and get fat via youtube or streams, theres no gate for the story/lore, i guess you just wanna see it ingame yourself? Then fight for the cake and achieve it.

Coil doesnt need a nerf, casual or hardcore everyone can get through this with practice or guides / videos that get posted on the forums, reddit whatever media you use.
End of talk.

[Kinseykinz]

Yet. That was my entire point is that it would get worse. You call me wrong and you clearly missed the point. The rest of your post is just plugging your ears, complaining, and not caring what-so-ever what that means like your complaints are easily fixed. You even go as far as to say it's not your problem. Reconnect yourself with reality a bit more.

Again, I understood you. I am telling you that it would NOT get worse. That if coil was 'unlocked' earlier, and more people could gain access/FC's could repeat the content to assist their members, less people would be so desperate for a win pre-nerf, pre-patch etc that the 'value' of a carry run would go down. Sure, people would still be selling runs...but it wouldn't be at any more or less a rate than people sell T5, or EX primal wins now. THAT was my point.

The reason people are charging so much...(and I guess someone is paying the price) is because it's 'limited'. The people doing the carry can only enter and clear 1x each character they have...(and even if they are using alts...ranking and gearing an alt to the point that it can clear T9 is an investment) And while I have no idea what the going rate for this is on my server, I do know based on the PF 'ads' I've seen for it that 'all drops are the buyers' So...the carriers are also basically selling you their lotting chances for the week. Basically, the carrier's only gain is the gil....they have to work overtime to ensure the win, get no gear or true character progression for themselves that week.

So now, take the same team/situation (selling runs), but make it so they can repeat the content (even if they can't lot anymore), and all the sudden, the value drops. Why?
1. They didn't need to invest time to level alts...they can use their fully-geared mains to 'carry' as often as they like. (IE less time involved leveling/questing/gearing an alt)
2. They don't have to give up their personal gear drops to do it....before taking customers through for the week, the can do their own static runs and gear up.
3. FC's/LS's and friends in general will be free to run and teach the content to their friends while it's still the 'in thing'...meaning less people will become so desperate they become willing to pay for a run in the first place (IE Supply vs. Demand).

It's not that if they unlocked coil I think NO ONE will sell....it's just the prices they will be able to charge would be far lower, and the potential pool of desperate buyers would be far lower too.

Meanwhile:
No one is THAT desperate to beat Ramuh EX THIS week that they will pay you 50million for it. No one. 1-3 million, maybe...50 million, not happening. The difference? Unlocked content.



PS: It's NOT my problem (and when I say this I mean to SOLVE) SE hasn't figured out how to let people access coil w/o character lockouts and still keep the coil gear 'special' I would think in an MMO world, they'd WANT people to play and challenge their hardest top-tier content as often as possible with as many friends and people as possible. Instead, they created an insular system that penalizes 'assisting' others or even making contacts outside your '8-man' It's over a year since launch, and SE has introduced little to no reason to have a friendship circle larger than 8. EVERYTHING in this game is doable with 8 people....everything.

Not only do the current coil lockouts prevent 'assisting' your FC mates...but they actually prohibit FC growth, and in some respects, might even be one of the subtle causes of the housing 'server stress' issues. What I mean is this, since everything can be done by a solid 8-man team, many small groups made their own FC's...afterall, why not, it's not like you NEED a big FC or group of people to do anything relevant in game anyway... but all these small FC's of 4-20ish members, really weren't SE's plan for the whole 'FC' thing. SE expected FC's to likely average around 200-300 members. Which would have been much more feasible on the housing servers as instead of having tons of small 4-20 man FC's each buying their own house etc, you'd have a modest amount of 200+ man FC's buying housing. And this matters, because ONE 200 member FC would only eat up ONE slot....the same membership however, spread out more like it is now in game over the smaller FC's...would eat up anywhere from 1/3 to an entire housing ward+ (200/20=10 houses vs 200/4=50 houses)...but because currently, the most difficult content in game is 'locked' and best done with a 'static' team, there is little to no reason to join or stay in a FC that doesn't contain said static (outside social reasons...which to be fair, matter to many, but can also be handled via other means like linkshells and friends lists etc). And yes, I know that even by 'unlocking' BC they still don't fix the much needed ' actually difficult,large scale content=need for large group' problem, but if Coil was unlocked then people WOULD be interested in joining FC's that were able to help them clear the 'tough' content...FC's that they saw as 'winners' etc.

So yeah, at the end of the day, you see 'lockouts' as preventing bad things like 'carrys' and 'sells' ....I already see the lockouts as something that is already causing far more damage...it's segregating the community, splintering established groups like FC's, keeping people locked in their own little circles (statics), and probably in a round about way, led to some of SE's unforeseen server structure problems like housing. And that's not even counting the people who log in, clear coil, log out until reset....or the people who stopped playing altogether until the next patch as they couldn't find a static and gave up...and had done everything else they were interested in. Removing the lockout, also encourages more people to log in more often each week.

[Maxwell]

Selling runs is a player made thing. SE has no responsibility to support it and i'd wager most of the population doesnt care about it.

Streamlining coil progression is crucial to support new players and more inclusive communities. With Coil 3, people will begin to forget how to do Coil 2. Coil 2 is quite a notch above Coil 1 in terms of difficulty. You need regular practice with set strategies to make it happen. With enough time, "corporate knowledge" spreads and PUGs become viable, but only because Coil 2 is the current flavor of the month. This knowledge is not permanent. When 3.0 comes out, coil may be completely obsolete including the skills, strategies and will to even do it.

New players will be screwed if PUG/FC/LS have to spend hours and hours to regain the muscle memory to do Coil 2. Imagine not touching coil for 6 months and having to do T6-9 to help a new FC member with a new coil group. Will that go smoothly ? :P

[Ooshima]

New players will be screwed if PUG/FC/LS have to spend hours and hours to regain the muscle memory to do Coil 2. Imagine not touching coil for 6 months and having to do T6-9 to help a new FC member with a new coil group. Will that go smoothly ? :P

Not really. If you have wiped enough times you would probably have the muscle memory to do it. Your new gear and echo would pull you though even though you screw up here and there. We get odd request to carry things like T5/Titan EX etc which sometimes the last time it was sold was like at least a month back but we still can do it.

[Krr]

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