Hey, Sincerely Thank You SE for easing up on Coil

[Toodles]

Frankly, I feel a few of the OHKO's shouldn't have been there in the first place (at least, not in a "normal difficulty" raid setting), so this' a welcome change for me.

There's a reason to implement normal & hard mode raids, especially when such meaningful/significant plot is gated behind said raids.

Echo doesn't really suffice when a speck of latency from any one of eight people could consistently cause a full-wipe.

Sure, you people want your one end-game raid option to be hard & for people to have to earn their rite of passage.

Well, do Savage Coil if you're really so inclined to difficulty.

Honestly, just making the fights a little less punishing (OHKO's -> heavy damage) is not that bad.

I think so many of those against this are grossly overreacting.

In any case, I welcome the change & thank you Yoshida & ARR Team.

As an avid raider myself, I'm not in the slightest form against easier alternatives to regular coil. However, I do feel that alternative is what it should be...

See I think the problem SE created is they made the floor too difficult for the average player (especially given they only gave us ONE end-game raid) & the incentive for Savage too pathetic.

I think further easing up the baseline is highly appropriate (again, especially given they only gave us ONE end-game raid).

I don't think any raid should be pug-able with ease personally, don't get me wrong.

I just think they set the bar a little too high for a normal-difficulty raid setting... there's a reason so many players feel so despairing when it comes to completing Coil, and I don't think that reason should exist for such a significant portion of the player-base.

Having both Hard-Mode & Extreme-Mode Primals with appropriated rewards was a good move, gating important plot behind Normal Coil & not providing a good incentive to Savage Coil was not.

In the future, SE needs to implement 3 Tiers of Raid Difficulty so everybody can reasonably enjoy the game's Raid Content.

Using Coil as an example, we'd have: Story (post impending nerfs) > Hard (current as-is) > Savage.

We need 24-man Savage Options too (simultaneously released), CT/ST are too pathetically easy.

Essentially, I agree with you, except I think the primary issue is the lack of incentive for Savage Coil.

...let the core players get through while it's difficult and the more casual players can wait until the next one, let them wait.

See, the thing is, if you make them wait every cycle... they're always going to feel dejected or second-class.

Not necessarily wrong, but it just doesn't sit well.

Let them enjoy it while it's current, right alongside the more avid/skilled.

Surely, give them lesser rewards, but let them have their sense of accomplishment while it feels real/pertinent/relevant.

Not when it would feel like a pity passing-grade.

[Alyko]

Agreed. Instakill and team jump rope mechanics are stupid. Glad they're easing up on the coil.

[Chokee]

oh boy lemme get my popcorn

[Miya_Carbuncle]

I'm just glad that when I get my new main class to 50 (still trying to decide on which one), I'll have a chance of catching up with those of you who've been playing much longer than I have. Seriously, I think I hardly even did any end game dungeons after hitting 50 on warrior and deciding to take a break from the game.

It sucks feeling so behind everyone else, lol. :c

[Fornix]

As an avid raider myself, I'm not in the slightest form against easier alternatives to regular coil. However, I do feel that alternative is what it should be.

An echo debuff in regular coil is one thing. However, tinkering with mechanics in regular coil is something I'm not in favor off. They should simply split it into a story mode, normal mode and savage mode version for each raid. Looting wise as a reward the to be obtained gear should also be adjusted appropriately. Story mode raids, depending on the level of difficulty ought to give gear on the level of the tower raids or in between tower raids and normal modes. Whereas savage mode completions ought to reward the player with iLvL +5 gear imo.

Secondly the shared lockouts should go straight out of the door.

It eases up on the incentive for players to participate in the content. As the way it currently is setup, participating in savage coil is next to impossible. As in many statics there's just one player required who doesn't believe a mere title is incentive enough to do it, and the rest is essentially locked out of the opportunity. Without kicking said player out of the static.

[Toodles]

There's merit to OHKO's used in moderation & tactfully, I'll say that at least.

However I think better forms of "punishing mechanics" exist that SE should explore more often, such as:

Miss avoiding an aoe, dispelling a short-duration placeholder debuff, or stun/silencing in time ~ become afflicted with an undispellable debuff for an intermediate term (like 30s or 1m).

Types could be dots, healing received decreases, reduced max health, slows, & more.

Some could even be stackable so you can redeem yourself if you mess up just once or twice, but if you screw up more times it's nigh-unrecoverable.

This is being utilized in the Odin Trial from Fan Fest where if Einherjar isn't silenced, the entire raid is afflicted with a prolonged, undispellable dot.

Punishments like not dps'ing the center-bulb in t6 quickly enough are examples of "great punishments" too (where the briar patch grows).

Or Siren's heal-to-max or be confused mechanic. Or Ramuh HM's shock or be frozen mechanic.

Many of these are survivable at first but definitely ramp up the difficulty/reduce odds of survival.

Overall, they're just way more engaging/fun/interesting than OHKO's.

T5 is poorly designed for a Normal Difficulty End-Game because it has a lot of OHKO's in one long fight.

Redesign the Electric Fence to hurt moderately & stun for 5s and/or make Twisters hurt a lot instead of OHKO'ing & that'd be about perfect for the general populace.

Save many of the OHKO's for Extremes/Savages.

[Barboron]

I think the coil is easy as it is, I don't mind the easing up on it but they have to accommodate both the "core" players and those that are more "casual", to each their own play type. Let the core players get through while it's difficult and if the more casual players can wait until the next one, let them wait.

[KioriBug]

Coming from a static coil group that couldn't beat T5 without the echo buff, barely at that, I'm in favor of it. When i'm filling in for another group when my group isn't running that week I have been as far as one attempt on Turn 8. I have also face planted Turn 9 when their whole group was just going to check it out, not a serious attempt.

In my static we have handicapped users, so our progress is slow, but it does improve as we get familiar with the fight. We've cleared all the primals except RamEX, half of us have done it so that we can walk the other half through.

With the unlock of coil 2 next week, I this gives us more incentive to practice these raids as a normal static, and gives the freedom for those of us who are able to pass it now, to do so.

I love the ehco buff, it lets those who normally can't pass it continue to see the story.

Speaking of that...I still have friends who have not cleared T5 even with echo buff. It is very frustrating to get people together, who die continually to the same mechanics every time. I've heard that they are going to remove twisters from T5 (not sure if true, I've not really bothered to look into it), but if they are changing that mechanic to remove it...why are people against it? Those who have passed are on the second coil, or going onto the third. Why does it matter that the content you no longer do/find useful to your character should block others from getting through it?

As the thread had already hit on, FFXIV only has one raid, (sorry but I don't count CT/ST as a raid). I've played WoW, and when I stopped after some time in Pandaria, there were two types of raids of the same content.

1 you could do with PUGs that gave you upgrades on gear. (raid finder)
2 you did with your raid group to attempt the harder challenge.

With option 1, people could see the raid, experience the content, and would even get gear. Now, don't misunderstand, this gear wasn't going to be the BiS at all for the classes, you went with option 2 for that.

Option 2 gave a much, much more difficult fight to those who attempted it. You went in with premade groups to attempt these challenges, and your rewards were better gear.

I wish we could see something like this in FFXIV, this way, those who want to do the harder content are very much welcomed to it, and those who would just like to see the story, you could pug it with little to no problem. Both see the content, both get gear, everyone is happy.

[AdamFyi]

I'm fine with content being eased through the use of better gear, the echo, and easing of the boss mechanics, but I'd rather they not touch the way the mechanics currently work.

A good example would be if Blighted Bouquet still dealing huge amounts of damage that can be survived but applies some kind of healing debuff like the one in Stone Vigil (Hard) - punishing, but won't automatically kill you.

Adjustments to the mechanics such as taking damage while under the effects of petrify not instantly killing you removes the whole purpose of the mechanic. Maybe an added effect of vulnerability up debuff that increases everytime you get hit as well as the timer increasing, starting with 10 seconds and increases every stack you get - punishing, but recoverable.

Though, I'm all for a story mode coil so that everyone can enjoy the story at their own pace. Everyone should be able to experience the story in the least, in my opinion.

[Seth_K]

Coils Should never get nerfed because then you shoot everyone single player in the head with a .50 cal. The fact is Coils is ENDGAME not story, even though it still has background. If you can't clear coils you shouldn't deserve to get a nerfed version as a lot of players have been there and struggled with the real thing for months b4 they got clears. Even in XI they never went easy on ENDGAME stuff.