@dev team ->> Thanks for bringing back party grinding, -really-

[danny52844]

everytime ppl actually like stuff no one even stays on topic and calls op a troll :|

[MrSmiley]

I prefer roaming parties actually, feels much more active

[Rhomagus]

I prefer roaming parties actually, feels much more active

I'd agree here. While having the option to grind for the hardcore playerbase is great, and the casuals still have a lot to choose from. I think the fishing style camping system is boring and outdated. There are situations where it's best to have a ranged attacker pull a mob in this manner but that's usually in a dungeon or when the target is sandwiched between to enemies that are not necessary to pull but may aggro.

As it is now, you get a healthy mix. No sleepy mage time for me thank you.

[Xatsh]

Technically I would say the OP is trolling.

I myself am loving seeing people all over starting to party more... honestly it was my #1 complaint since this games release as it it the whole reason I play mmos over offline games. The group aspect is what makes a mmo for me, and it is finally starting to happen so I agree thank you devs for bringing that back and keep focusing in that direction finally a mmo that is not forgetting the multiplayer part of it.

Issues with the OPs post is he is bashing everything else, the stuff the opposing sides want. And without reason to back it up, even stated and that "WoW" stuff (direct blow to the mmo that probably at least 70% of the players enjoyed at one time). This is inciting anger of a portion of the playerbase without reason, which is the definition of a forum troll. So like it or not the post is a troll post. If the Op really didn't want it to be.... the op needs to choose their words much better and at least give reason for SE to trash the casual system not just say scrap the WoW system.

My Opinion is the Game needs both, the ff playerbase wants focus on group content, the mainstream mmo world wants the option to solo all day or group. The solution is to offer both, but keep grouping the focal point with the best benefits. (only way to keep partying happening). But you have to have fun stuff for the casuals who can only play 30mins-1hr a day to play.... but those casual also have to understand they will not advance anywhere near as fast as those playing in groups, and will not be able to get the same gear without making some time for the group content. In the end it must be a fair trade off. Ease of doing it VS Reward.

[Murugan]

Technically I would say the OP is trolling.

I myself am loving seeing people all over starting to party more... honestly it was my #1 complaint since this games release as it it the whole reason I play mmos over offline games. The group aspect is what makes a mmo for me, and it is finally starting to happen so I agree thank you devs for bringing that back and keep focusing in that direction finally a mmo that is not forgetting the multiplayer part of it.

Issues with the OPs post is he is bashing everything else, the stuff the opposing sides want. And without reason to back it up, even stated and that "WoW" stuff (direct blow to the mmo that probably at least 70% of the players enjoyed at one time). This is inciting anger of a portion of the playerbase without reason, which is the definition of a forum troll. So like it or not the post is a troll post. If the Op really didn't want it to be.... the op needs to choose their words much better and at least give reason for SE to trash the casual system not just say scrap the WoW system.

My Opinion is the Game needs both, the ff playerbase wants focus on group content, the mainstream mmo world wants the option to solo all day or group. The solution is to offer both, but keep grouping the focal point with the best benefits. (only way to keep partying happening). But you have to have fun stuff for the casuals who can only play 30mins-1hr a day to play.... but those casual also have to understand they will not advance anywhere near as fast as those playing in groups, and will not be able to get the same gear without making some time for the group content. In the end it must be a fair trade off. Ease of doing it VS Reward.

This^ there is no reason to remove guildleves completely for solo players, and I dont' get the OP's problem with instanced dungeons.

However the people who want to kill grouping by making WoW questing the most attractive option for leveling need to just go play WoW. Honestly you have ruined enough modern MMO's, no one but a very very tiny minority of people actually enjoys (not tolerates) that style of leveling.

You people (wolfie, dyne, neptune etc.) need to stop pretending like that is in anyway modern, and that grouping to level is an outdated idea. It's an MMO people play these games because they like being social, evidence of this is what most people do at endgame. There is no evidence the majority of people like to play solo up until then, most people just do this because it is fast and easy so they can get to the "real game".

I also disagree with the poster above me that instances should be a primary means of leveling. Content should be content, and during mid level content if you get some XP that's great but that shouldn't be people's goal going in. Leveling should be leveling. When you mix the two you make both lackluster.

[Neptune]

You people (wolfie, dyne, neptune etc.) need to stop pretending like that is in anyway modern, and that grouping to level is an outdated idea.

I never said it was an outdated idea. Grouping to level is ideal. Engaging in endless battles without any context or story is primitive. For God's sakes, this is 2011 and we have all these tools at our disposal. Can we not get some exciting content to play through as we level? Is it too much to ask?

[Ichi]

Technically I would say the OP is trolling.

I myself am loving seeing people all over starting to party more... honestly it was my #1 complaint since this games release as it it the whole reason I play mmos over offline games. The group aspect is what makes a mmo for me, and it is finally starting to happen so I agree thank you devs for bringing that back and keep focusing in that direction finally a mmo that is not forgetting the multiplayer part of it.

Issues with the OPs post is he is bashing everything else, the stuff the opposing sides want. And without reason to back it up, even stated and that "WoW" stuff (direct blow to the mmo that probably at least 70% of the players enjoyed at one time). This is inciting anger of a portion of the playerbase without reason, which is the definition of a forum troll. So like it or not the post is a troll post. If the Op really didn't want it to be.... the op needs to choose their words much better and at least give reason for SE to trash the casual system not just say scrap the WoW system.

My Opinion is the Game needs both, the ff playerbase wants focus on group content, the mainstream mmo world wants the option to solo all day or group. The solution is to offer both, but keep grouping the focal point with the best benefits. (only way to keep partying happening). But you have to have fun stuff for the casuals who can only play 30mins-1hr a day to play.... but those casual also have to understand they will not advance anywhere near as fast as those playing in groups, and will not be able to get the same gear without making some time for the group content. In the end it must be a fair trade off. Ease of doing it VS Reward.

Is it really any worse than the opposite side misrepresenting their personal opinions with comments like "This is what gamers want" or "normal people don't like to grind".

[Baelari]

I'm happy more people are starting to grind. I like going out and seeing how fast my party can kill things sometimes. Other times I want to do quests and read little bits of lore, though, so keep the quests. Leves... I hate most the leves; especially the ones where the mobs run away. I only do them for the guild marks.

[captainpicard]

The WoW quest grind, instanced raiding experience is available in 100 other MMOs. Its a trite, tired, boring approach to online gaming. This style of MMO amounts to quest grinding to level cap, culminating in endless repition of the same tired raids/dungeons across 6 alternate characters, for the ultimate reward of an epic shirt with a purple outline that you can't even sell for a profit.

If 70% of you enjoy that style of MMO, then there are plenty of them out there, pick one and roll with it.

This game still has a chance to do something different.

MMO gaming should be about the journey, not the destination. The current mentality in MMO world seems to be the game starts when you hit level cap and raid. I can't think of a more dreadful outcome.

MMO gaming for me, is about grouping with other people to level up, and having fun doing it. I don't need the content to be instanced to protect me from risks other players introduce. I don't need the content to be instanced so I can get those sought after drops either. That experience is available elsewhere.

Now - With 1.18, they gave me a reason to log back into the game. It has improved now that partying actually works, but lets take a look at the history of the game.

I started in beta.

Main mechanics for leveling included

Leve's (8 every 48 hours)
Behest
Solo for very unpredicable experience points
Form a party with the maximum number of people allowed, and kill the hardest mobs you could find with the shear brute force of your party, for better, but still unpredictable experience points.

-none- of these modes of play were fun.

The partying lacked any strategy or tactic. Soloing is soloing (aka boring) and Leve's were limited (and not particularly fun for that matter)

Patches Came, Patches Went

Experience points were made predictable. That killed the raid sized grind parties.
New mode of leveling

Leve's
Behest
Soloing

I don't remember if they had reduced the timer on Leve's at this point as I had stopped doing them completely for a time period.

Patches Came, Patches Went.. Not alot changed.

I joined a static group and we leve-linked our leve's every reset.
This was the new primary mode of leveling, other than soloing during this era.

This is when I quit playing the game.

Leve's were not the camp and pull fun I was looking for. They were very short experiences that included lots of timesinks (get leve's, compare leves, figure out what links, spend anima, do leves, run to next camp, do more leves)

What they felt like were some kind of weird twilight zone version of what group play where every bad concept was adopted and implemented, and any good concept was discarded.

More time passes 1.18 comes out

Well Well, we can actually party again. The game is finally showing some progress in the right direction.

I see no reason to continue with the leve system, it reminds me of MMO welfare/Food stamps, and it also serves as a constant reminder of how totally sorry this game was up until just a couple of weeks ago.




Casual players should go play casual games. This game needs to figure out what it wants to be. If it wants to WoW or one of its many clones, then it has already failed at that.

So the obvious choice to focus on a different style.

Removing the remnants of the old is a good way to move on to something better.

Leaving systems like the leve system in place only serve to keep the game unfocused in my opinion.

[thepinksupervisor]

Wait if we take that all out what are we going to do?