Instant Win Button [Can we have it?]

[Miitan]

I'm trying to help some friends of mine that never cleared Twintania to take it down so they can move on because they want to get to Second Coil. They don't go into the fight and Twintania just drops dead for no reason. They still have to handle the initial pull with the Scourges. They have to get through Conflag/Fireball phase. They still have to dodge Divebombs or risk being thrown into a wall that will instantly kill them. They still have to deal with the snakes and try to take them down before Aetherial Profusion. Still gotta dodge Twisters or die. Still gotta burn down the Dreadknights. Still gotta handle Hatch and Liquid Hell (although that phase was pretty darn easy even before any adjustments).

Exactly, but some people still claim it's too hard and want it nerfed to the point where you could roll your face across the keyboard and win because they don't want to do any of that hard stuff like learning mechanics or making some friends.

[DeadRiser]

Exactly, but some people still claim it's too hard and want it nerfed to the point where you could roll your face across the keyboard and win because they don't want to do any of that hard stuff like learning mechanics or making some friends.

But... they aren't going to nerf it to the point where you can roll your face on the keyboard. Have the nerfed T5 to that point? No. What do you think they said on the live letter yesterday? They aren't going to make it that easy. People are still going to have to learn the fights...

[Dwill]

But... they aren't going to nerf it to the point where you can roll your face on the keyboard. Have the nerfed T5 to that point? No.

Actually, yes they did.

[Kyri]

Actually, yes they did.

Nah. Twintania still takes a fair degree of coordination to deal with the mechanics. The only thing easier about T5 is the DPS checks, and the tanks and healers have a little bit more cushion with HP and healing potency increased. That's about it.

You really can't just run into T5 and auto-win without having some knowledge of how the fight works, and I really wish people would stop implying (or flat-out stating) that you can.

[Dwill]

Nah. Twintania still takes a fair degree of coordination to deal with the mechanics. The only thing easier about T5 is the DPS checks, and the tanks and healers have a little bit more cushion with HP and healing potency increased. That's about it.

You really can't just run into T5 and auto-win without having some knowledge of how the fight works, and I really wish people would stop implying (or flat-out stating) that you can.

Nearly every encounter in the game demands some basic level of coordination, whether it's Titan HM, Ramuh EX,T5 or T8, etc. The two hardest part of this fight for people (Twisters and Divebombs) can easily be done by:

• Divebombs: See Green Blinker ? Move to the right side right away, wait ~2-3 seconds, reposition, rinse and repeat.

• Twisters: /focustarget Twintania. When you see her cast Twister, run around without backtracking and getting close to party members.

That's it. And yes, it can easily be done going in with just the basic knowledge of the encounter and clear it as easy as Leviathan HM. I brought my brother in there as a tank, told him the exact steps above and how to deal with snakes and not 15 minutes later, 1-shot.


The fight is easy. What's hard for people is not tunnel visioning.

[Lemuria]

Nearly every encounter in the game demands some basic level of coordination, whether it's Titan HM, Ramuh EX,T5 or T8, etc. The two hardest part of this fight for people (Twisters and Divebombs) can easily be done by

The fact that you listed HOW it should be done is a clear indication that it still requires a lot of forethought and good solid teamwork. It only takes one person screwing up to get the party wiped by a divebomb or a fireball. I daresay T5 has so many little things that can screw you over that it's a wonder anyone worked out the mechanics (especially for Twister... I mean, who came up with the idea of everywhere you'd previously walked becoming a death trap?).

Personally, I'm not a fan of instant kill mechanics in any MMO. They're mostly used as a cheap tactic to force a play-style rather than adding any real innovation to the fight. That's one thing that coil actually does right for the most part. There are a few insta-kills, but a few mistakes here and there can be survivable. That being said, it's not content that anyone can complete. It requires a lot of heavy coordination, which excludes most casual players and practically forces you to run a static.

[Gardes]

The fact that you listed HOW it should be done is a clear indication that it still requires a lot of forethought and good solid teamwork. It only takes one person screwing up to get the party wiped by a divebomb or a fireball. I daresay T5 has so many little things that can screw you over that it's a wonder anyone worked out the mechanics (especially for Twister... I mean, who came up with the idea of everywhere you'd previously walked becoming a death trap?).

Personally, I'm not a fan of instant kill mechanics in any MMO. They're mostly used as a cheap tactic to force a play-style rather than adding any real innovation to the fight. That's one thing that coil actually does right for the most part. There are a few insta-kills, but a few mistakes here and there can be survivable. That being said, it's not content that anyone can complete. It requires a lot of heavy coordination, which excludes most casual players and practically forces you to run a static.

Actually, you definitely have a chance to survive on divebomb screw ups. In fact, about a week ago I did t5 to get 2 people their wins. 3 people got hit by the divebombs and got pushed into the arena. Then they just stayed there, running about as twintania finished the other 2 divebombs. One person that was pushed the first time died, but was raised immediately after (we won that run iirc). Also, I've had t5 attempts where some people did not stack for fireball in time and died alone (or caused a 2nd person's death) but it was no where near enough to cause a party wipe. Most of the 'one person dies, everybody dies' in the game are caused by a strict dps check that are completely thrown out of the window when you give a party 20% echo.

Also, healing in this game is overpowered in terms of how fast you can heal from near 0 to completely full. I don't know which design led to which, but if instant kill mechanics goes away but healer's healing power stays as it is, alot of fights would suddenly be near guaranteed wins. Twintania's death sentence is not even an issue to think about in parties now. Just heal it after it happens, no need to think about when it's going to happen and when to use mitigation skills (I certainly didn't when I tanked and healed the fight recently). Divebomb phase where there's no instant kill? Players just get hit by the dive bomb, hit the wall and...nothing. Targetted twice? Long enough to be fully healed back to full before the 2nd dive bomb. Twisters phase with no instant kill? Twisters itself wont kill so healers can just heal people in 3 seconds or less. Dreadknights now only saps people's health slowly? DPS can be slow and let the dread knight peck at the stunned party member for a few seconds and he/she won't die and will be healed back to full in seconds. I won't say no removing instant kill mechanics in raids but that's probably going to need a lot of rebalancing to player stats (which alot probably won't be happy about) plus rebalancing past fights, especially level synced ones.

[Dwill]

The fact that you listed HOW it should be done is a clear indication that it still requires a lot of forethought and good solid teamwork.

Being able to press WASD as needed (without even any facing requirement) is not what I call a lot of forethought. And no, Divebombs with i100+ and 20% Echo are not even a guaranteed one-hit kill. It requires basic coordination a.k.a stack on the appropriate markers and press WASD when you see the green blinkers/Twister cast. The fight can be 4-manned by skillful people so there's no reason for 8 people with 20% Echo, with i100+ on the nerfed version of the encounter that aren't tunnel visioning to not complete the encounter.

[Kyri]

The fight is easy. What's hard for people is not tunnel visioning.

Not to be snarky, but you basically just said "as long as people can handle the easy mechanics, then the fight is easy!"

Well.. that's pretty much been true the whole time. It was never really Twintania just outright killing people that made T5 difficult. It was dealing with people that couldn't handle dive bombs, or twisters. That was always the biggest hurdle to clear. Once you could deal with them all, the fight was pretty routine.

[Xisin]

Not to be snarky, but you basically just said "as long as people can handle the easy mechanics, then the fight is easy!"

Well.. that's pretty much been true the whole time. It was never really Twintania just outright killing people that made T5 difficult. It was dealing with people that couldn't handle dive bombs, or twisters. That was always the biggest hurdle to clear. Once you could deal with them all, the fight was pretty routine.

As I said, you just need 3 competent people. Get two other friends together and have at it. (not implying you are that person, but if anyone needs a clear on t5 I'm happy to help if they're on sarg, I routinely sell them... however I do them for free if they ask haha.)