Instant Win Button [Can we have it?]

[Kyri]

They don't catch up though because they were never forced to learn anything or improve. They just get stuck again and we have to have this debate over and over again. People who cannot clear T5 now would not be able to go and compete in Second Coil even if you got rid of T5 as a pre-requisite. And content is already nerfed overtime because everything in this game is vertical, just by getting new/higher iLvl you are already nerfing content indirectly.

I guess I'll just keep editing this post because I'd rather not hit the daily post cap again

See, you're implying that as soon as they make their difficulty adjustments that all of the players everywhere are just going to log in and find all the Second Coil gear mysteriously in their inventory and have access to the Final Coil already open to them. This is simply not the case. Also yes, they play catch up. We're in Final Coil, they're messing around in Second Coil catching up to the rest of us. See how that works?

I'm trying to help some friends of mine that never cleared Twintania to take it down so they can move on because they want to get to Second Coil. They don't go into the fight and Twintania just drops dead for no reason. They still have to handle the initial pull with the Scourges. They have to get through Conflag/Fireball phase. They still have to dodge Divebombs or risk being thrown into a wall that will instantly kill them. They still have to deal with the snakes and try to take them down before Aetherial Profusion. Still gotta dodge Twisters or die. Still gotta burn down the Dreadknights. Still gotta handle Hatch and Liquid Hell (although that phase was pretty darn easy even before any adjustments).

The fight is easier because the damage dealt to the tank between Death Sentence hits is largely inconsequential, as the tank's increased HP and the healers' increased cure potency trivialize most of it. DS/Plummet/Attack in quick succession can still be tricky, but for the most part there is less stress there. The DPS checks are much easier. When I cleared T5, we had to 4 stack Conflags. Any less and Fireball could kill people. Any more and the Conflag would blow up too quickly. Now, a 3 stack conflag is normal. Easy to take the hit and survive, easy to burn down the conflag before time runs out. In fact, sometimes the conflag dies too fast. We had a fireball target run in to the conflag like they were supposed to, but the conflag died before Twin used Fireball and wound up getting the two people who got broke out killed by it. After those first two phases, though... they still have to get around all the instant kill mechanics. It is still a learning process, just not quite as unforgiving of one. Plus, they can just "turn off" the Echo and wear nothing but i90 gear to get the true "T5 Experience" if they so desire.

At any rate, there is no "instant win button". If you're new to something like T5 and think you're just gonna waltz in and beat it without a fight because you have an Echo buff, Twintania will still destroy you without so much as a second thought. Similarly, I can't imagine that Second Coil is going to be instantly trivialized the moment they make their proposed adjustments.

[Gardes]

It's only T5 though. The rest of the turns are so trivialized that it's probably not much harder than the current ex dungeons. T5 is also trivialized by the fact that people are helping people get past t5. Regardless of the role of these helpers take on in t5, they're still adding into difficulty decrease on top of echo and item over level. Then they're free to go into the currently relevant second coil that are supposed to be harder than the previous one without echo. The expectations of the people you just helped and the people already in the PF for 2nd coil will be widely different. That's just fostering a PF board where the recruit rules are harsher and harsher.

[DeadRiser]

I don't know why people are against them nerfing the older content THAT HAS STORY DRIVEN CONTENT behind it. I want to see what happens in 2.4 since I haven't had the chance to tackle T9 yet.

Yes, I have completed T6-8 pre-nerf. Even if I didn't, does not mean I'm not a skilled player. Just means I don't have the time outside of school and work to be in a static or my FC already has a static that are working towards T9 completion. You are going to be able to progress the final coil from the get-go... but you have to remember. Just because they nerf some parts of the fight does not mean it is an "iwin" thing. They still have to learn how the mechanics work. I mean look at how many people are still stuck on T5.

Just because YOU have a static and have a dedicated schedule to practice coil two or three nights a week does not mean everyone else that plays the game do as well. Think outside your small schedule or your static and realize not everyone is like you.

[Prototype909]

I don't know why people are against them nerfing the older content THAT HAS STORY DRIVEN CONTENT behind it. I want to see what happens in 2.4 since I haven't had the chance to tackle T9 yet.

Because they've already said they're adding story mode coil for people who only care about the story, meaning nerfing content for those people is pointless

[mero-ix]

It doesn't bother me that they nerf raiding 7 months later. I just don't want them to change current raids to be easier. Leave it be the hardest content in the game that not everyone will be able to do, then nerf it after a few months. I see no problem in that. But when I hear talk of them changing how future raiding will work to potentially become more "accessible", I worry. I like how things are now.

The way some people talk about raiders, they make it sound like if you raid and can clear T9 then that automatically makes you elitist. The only people I look down on are assholes. I help people out all the time. I have an alt that I use to wipe for hours helping out friends or random PF groups in T9 even though I can oneshot it on my main. Being proud of your achievements doesn't make you a bad person, but the entitled are gonna hate...

[DeadRiser]

Because they've already said they're adding story mode coil for people who only care about the story, meaning nerfing content for those people is pointless

They are not adding a story coil mode next patch or probably not the patch after (if I would assume correctly). That means they would have to revamp everything from T1 to the newest turns with takes a lot of work. I'm sure they are talking about AT or AFTER 3.0, and for future story driven raids like that. But as of now, they aren't. So nerfing them so people can enjoy the story before 3.0 is not really a big deal. People need to calm their .... >.>

[Miitan]

I'm trying to help some friends of mine that never cleared Twintania to take it down so they can move on because they want to get to Second Coil. They don't go into the fight and Twintania just drops dead for no reason. They still have to handle the initial pull with the Scourges. They have to get through Conflag/Fireball phase. They still have to dodge Divebombs or risk being thrown into a wall that will instantly kill them. They still have to deal with the snakes and try to take them down before Aetherial Profusion. Still gotta dodge Twisters or die. Still gotta burn down the Dreadknights. Still gotta handle Hatch and Liquid Hell (although that phase was pretty darn easy even before any adjustments).

Exactly, but some people still claim it's too hard and want it nerfed to the point where you could roll your face across the keyboard and win because they don't want to do any of that hard stuff like learning mechanics or making some friends.

[DeadRiser]

Exactly, but some people still claim it's too hard and want it nerfed to the point where you could roll your face across the keyboard and win because they don't want to do any of that hard stuff like learning mechanics or making some friends.

But... they aren't going to nerf it to the point where you can roll your face on the keyboard. Have the nerfed T5 to that point? No. What do you think they said on the live letter yesterday? They aren't going to make it that easy. People are still going to have to learn the fights...

[TheRogueX]

Herp Derp Elitist with stupid name herp derps things that have been herp derped before and thinks (s)he's witty and/or clever

You're against a story mode Coil AND you're against making Coil easier so *all* players (who pay to play the game, just like everyone else) can experience a significant part of the story. As far as I'm concerned, your complaints are just more entitled BS coming from the "hardcore" or "raider" crowd. Also, your posts aren't witty, clever, funny, or even relevant.

The only reason to compromise the difficulty of the content is because people are too lazy to put the effort into the fights as they were designed

Oh, so THAT'S why I haven't completed T2-T9 yet! I'm lazy! Oh, and I just want the gear for free! It has nothing to do with the fact that my life is busy, with family and RL commitments. And the fact that I could really care less about the gear doesn't play into it, either! I don't really care about the STORY in it; I'm just lazy and entitled and just want my High Allagan gear for free! /sarcasm

Exactly, but some people still claim it's too hard and want it nerfed to the point where you could roll your face across the keyboard and win because they don't want to do any of that hard stuff like learning mechanics or making some friends.

You guys claim this, but I think you're just making it up. You find me even *one* person that actually feels this way and perhaps I'll give some weight to your argument. I doubt you will, though, because I'm pretty sure they don't exist anywhere but in your mind (and the like-minds of other elitist raiders).

[Kyri]

It's only T5 though. The rest of the turns are so trivialized that it's probably not much harder than the current ex dungeons. T5 is also trivialized by the fact that people are helping people get past t5. Regardless of the role of these helpers take on in t5, they're still adding into difficulty decrease on top of echo and item over level. Then they're free to go into the currently relevant second coil that are supposed to be harder than the previous one without echo. The expectations of the people you just helped and the people already in the PF for 2nd coil will be widely different. That's just fostering a PF board where the recruit rules are harsher and harsher.

How can the PF board rules get much harsher than they already are? I mean, everywhere you look it's, "T(X) weekly clear. NOT A LEARNING PARTY!!! You must have multiple clears. 3 strike rule." Heck, I joined one before I beat T6 that pretty much said "Die to Blighted and I kick/blacklist you." And then you have... the others. "WTS T6/7/8/9! 100% Guaranteed! Hundreds of happy customers! PST for pricing and scheduling info!"

And it's funny you say, "It's only T5 though.", because when the Binding Coil was first "nerfed", people had their panties all in a knot over that too. And now it's "just T5". And when the elite players are beating T13, it will be "just T9". Old news.

Either way, people can already beat T9 without putting effort into learning it if they have enough money to throw at people. So.. maybe that's why people are upset? SE is undercutting their market by making T9 more accessible to slightly less skilled players? Well.. I'd say that if people weren't still buying T5..