Booing when Coil2 Nerf was announced

[VahnValbosce]

You're fighting against other players stupidity and ineptitude.

This is non-sense.

Allow me to reword your paragraph: "Good players should be able to carry noobs"

You really think its fair for 7 other people to have the fight NERFED on them because 1 person can't pull their weight? What the heck??? Now you are totally giving in to that 1 person, because Nerfing the entire fight is hurting the 7 other people who CAN clear it!!!

[Riepah]

Now you are totally giving in to that 1 person, because Nerfing the entire fight is hurting the 7 other people who CAN clear it!!!

How exactly does it "hurt" you when content you've cleared in the past gets nerfed? Why do you care so much?

Sure, if we look at Amdapor Keep's Demon Door, removing the bees was quite unnecessary and makes the fight stupidly easy, I think they should've been kept in. But yeah.. big deal? How can a nerf of past content hurt anybody?
"Uh, what an unnecessary change for silly noobs." <- that is the reasonable extent of what your reaction should be to this. Claiming you're "hurt" is really overboard. If you hadn't beaten it before I could understand that you felt a challenge was taken away from you before you had the chance to overcome it by yourself, but if you already beat it before the nerf, it really doesn't affect you adversely, no matter how you look at it. Aside from the "I want to feel special" thing, that is.

[Welsper59]

The worst part about it is, its not even hard. Learning the fights is hard but once you learn them, its cake mode.

Once you learn how to do anything consistent by memory, it becomes easy. This is true for nearly everything in life. Once that happens, difficulty extends only to the time you are willing to allow for it for anything that you do alone. Or in the case of things that require others to be involved, the time AND the capability of your party becomes the only difficult part of it. That being said, it's easy to spout that something isn't hard, but not everyone is going to be able to learn as quickly or willingly as another. Otherwise, we'd all know exactly how to do literally everything in life, since once we learn it, it's easy.

[polyhedral]

You would think they'd be happy it would HELP the other 7 people WIN the fight, instead of crying about a "nerf" that should be called a "fix", or, a "solution".

[VahnValbosce]

How exactly does it "hurt" you when content you've cleared in the past gets nerfed? Why do you care so much?

...But yeah.. big deal?

It is a Big Deal actually.

It presents a negative idea to the development team, that somehow they are creating raid content in the first place that is somehow WAYYYYY too difficult for the FFXIV playerbase. So then when developing future content, they will ALWAYS ease up on mechanics. Pretty soon the "past content Nerf" will expand into "current content Nerf". Don't think this will happen? If this Nerf Trend continues, you can bet top dollar that it WILL HAPPEN.

People enjoy challenging content, that is the truth. Because 1 person can't overcome the challenge and they constantly wipe the raid, instead nerf the fight for 7 other party members??? No thanks. That is BACKWARDS progression at its finest.

Beat AV in XI yet?

Easy content from SE, right? Simple mechanics, right?

How many years did it take for a legit win?

THIS IS NOT FFXI,

It's 2015 ALMOST and an entirely different game. Impossible Mechanics are different than challenging mechanics. TURN 9 is Challenging, Turn 9 is NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

And on that note: I'm done with this Forum Topic, I figured out it's basically just a bunch of people asking for content to get nerfed because -> they are the 1 person that wipes the raid -> they are too busy to play this game -> they don't want to work on something and progress with other people -> they want to be able to carry people, or don't have the patience for them to learn.

So their solution is: Make the game suck by Nerfing Content! ... Yea, great logic.

[polyhedral]

Beat AV in XI yet?

Easy content from SE, right? Simple mechanics, right?

How many years did it take for a legit win?

[Aethaeryn]

It is a Big Deal actually.

It presents a negative idea to the development team, that somehow they are creating raid content in the first place that is somehow WAYYYYY too difficult for the FFXIV playerbase. So then when developing future content, they will ALWAYS ease up on mechanics. Pretty soon the "past content Nerf" will expand into "current content Nerf". Don't think this will happen? If this Nerf Trend continues, you can bet top dollar that it WILL HAPPEN.

Nice slippery slope argument there. Plenty of games nerf old content when new content is added without suddenly dumbing down the new content. You can't know that SE will start making all encounters easy until it happens.

[Hyrist]

It is a Big Deal actually.

It presents a negative idea to the development team, that somehow they are creating raid content in the first place that is somehow WAYYYYY too difficult for the FFXIV playerbase. So then when developing future content, they will ALWAYS ease up on mechanics. Pretty soon the "past content Nerf" will expand into "current content Nerf". Don't think this will happen? If this Nerf Trend continues, you can bet top dollar that it WILL HAPPEN.

People enjoy challenging content, that is the truth. Because 1 person can't overcome the challenge and they constantly wipe the raid, instead nerf the fight for 7 other party members??? No thanks. That is BACKWARDS progression at its finest.

I'll take that bet.

Nothing in the entire year of precedent we've established has there ever been an indication they would /ever/ budge on current content.

See: Atma.

There's a very clear trend to follow here that they've kept to in spite of uproar on either side, and they've not budged an inch on it, much to the determent and success depending on which end of the seesaw you sit upon at any particular time. It's six months before they make adjustment. Half a year to cover top end content before adjustments start, which is usually a couple weeks after the new content comes out.

So yes, top dollar? What does that mean to you? Because I would put money against your prediction. Precedent is on my side in this matter this one looks like a real safe bet to take. If anything, they've added Savage Coil, which is harder content that they have not made any announcements to change. So really, the facts weigh heavily against you. Are you sure you want to put money against this, because I'd gladly take it from you if you're just offering to give it away.

[Anarnee]

You know, coil use to scare me. Never wanted to do it, but then going in there, I really enjoyed the fights and I too would hate to make them loose that feeling. They were clear about them still being hard, but its still not the same. Granted I'm not at the end yet, I've only touched five and six.

[VicViperion]

Strawman argument

No, you're creating a better game for it. Why, exactly, is artificial difficulty a good thing? Why, exactly, is tying raid progress to the LEAST CAPABLE MEMBER, a good thing? Protip: It isn't. No legitimately challenging team game ties EVERYONES immeadiate pass or failure to one person. Which is exactly what the current raid mechanics do, and why they're the wrong direction for any game to take. People SHOULD be able to pick up the slack for weaker members. People SHOULD be able to carry. Winning or losing SHOULD be a team effort, whereas currently, now, the fate of the entire raid is ALWAYS on the weakest link. And that is bad game design, plain and simple, to attach the entire progress of 7 other people, to whoever is the worst player.