Booing when Coil2 Nerf was announced

[Alberel]

The problem isn't that the mechanics are difficult. The problem is that one bad player on your team can trigger a 1-shot mechanic to wipe the entire party. You can have 7 good players and they won't be able to progress because that one bad player always gets the party swallowed by Rafflesia; always petrifies the party; always triggers the wrong tower; always drops a comet too close to another.

Now I know the elitists out there will retort to the effect of 'well find a new member'. Unfortunately that is getting harder and harder to do as more and more people settle into statics . The majority of the time your options for replacing a member are either to poach someone from another static or find a fresh 50 to gear up and teach the fight to which just leads you in a circle.

A few months from now almost no one will even be running second coil and it will be almost impossible to find competent groups for it.

The reason people are still stuck on T5 is because the echo and mechanics changes do nothing to alleviate the articial difficulty created by 1-shot mechanics. T5 was nerfed in name alone considering the thing that kills most parties is twisters and dreadknights which continue to 1-shot regardless of echo or outgearing.

So at the end of the day Coil will always have to be nerfed simply to allow 1 good player to get by with 7 bads... because eventually that 1 good player will have no choice in who he runs the content with due to lack of interest from other players.

Before any elitists disagree with me, please tell us the last time you voluntarily helped another player to run coil content without any expectation of a reward. Exactly.

[Ghasto]

Before any elitists disagree with me, please tell us the last time you voluntarily helped another player to run coil content without any expectation of a reward. Exactly.

Almost every day, though I help FC members or friends of the FC far more often than randoms in PF.

[VahnValbosce]

Before any elitists disagree with me, please tell us the last time you voluntarily helped another player to run coil content without any expectation of a reward. Exactly.

Um, I joined a random Turn 5 Pug the other night because I was bored.

I've run Titan EX for fun and because it was in the duty finder and I wanted to practice my Monks DPS rotation.

I've run Moggle Mog EX for LS members.

I help people OUTSIDE OF MY FC

I help people inside my FC

Do not use the "elitist" excuse that just because we can beat Turn 9, doesn't mean we Never help people get clears of other things. Actually that excuse is not an excuse, its a direct insult to players with the intention of making them look like jerks because they are dedicated to clearing content.You're buying into the non-sense that in gaming there are only two types of people: Elitists and Baddies. I am not an elitist and I clear Coil Turn 9 as well as help other people, so don't try and push that BS on me.

[VicViperion]

"The problem isn't that the mechanics are difficult. The problem is that one bad player on your team can trigger a 1-shot mechanic to wipe the entire party. You can have 7 good players and they won't be able to progress because that one bad player"

"echo and mechanics changes do nothing to alleviate the articial difficulty created by 1-shot mechanics."

And thats why Coil REALLY needs a nerf. Not in numbers, but in mechanics. It's pure artificial difficulty at it's finest, and worse, people actually support that kind of garbage. You having bigger numbers on your screen isn't going to do a thing when someone puts a Conflag on the party in T5, gets half the team petrified in T7, gets people eaten on T6, etc. It's a TERRIBLE gameplay mechanic to tie the entirety of a raid to whoever is the worst player in any given group. Because you're not playing the game, you're fighting against other players stupidity and ineptitude.

[VahnValbosce]

You're fighting against other players stupidity and ineptitude.

This is non-sense.

Allow me to reword your paragraph: "Good players should be able to carry noobs"

You really think its fair for 7 other people to have the fight NERFED on them because 1 person can't pull their weight? What the heck??? Now you are totally giving in to that 1 person, because Nerfing the entire fight is hurting the 7 other people who CAN clear it!!!

[Riepah]

Now you are totally giving in to that 1 person, because Nerfing the entire fight is hurting the 7 other people who CAN clear it!!!

How exactly does it "hurt" you when content you've cleared in the past gets nerfed? Why do you care so much?

Sure, if we look at Amdapor Keep's Demon Door, removing the bees was quite unnecessary and makes the fight stupidly easy, I think they should've been kept in. But yeah.. big deal? How can a nerf of past content hurt anybody?
"Uh, what an unnecessary change for silly noobs." <- that is the reasonable extent of what your reaction should be to this. Claiming you're "hurt" is really overboard. If you hadn't beaten it before I could understand that you felt a challenge was taken away from you before you had the chance to overcome it by yourself, but if you already beat it before the nerf, it really doesn't affect you adversely, no matter how you look at it. Aside from the "I want to feel special" thing, that is.

[VahnValbosce]

How exactly does it "hurt" you when content you've cleared in the past gets nerfed? Why do you care so much?

...But yeah.. big deal?

It is a Big Deal actually.

It presents a negative idea to the development team, that somehow they are creating raid content in the first place that is somehow WAYYYYY too difficult for the FFXIV playerbase. So then when developing future content, they will ALWAYS ease up on mechanics. Pretty soon the "past content Nerf" will expand into "current content Nerf". Don't think this will happen? If this Nerf Trend continues, you can bet top dollar that it WILL HAPPEN.

People enjoy challenging content, that is the truth. Because 1 person can't overcome the challenge and they constantly wipe the raid, instead nerf the fight for 7 other party members??? No thanks. That is BACKWARDS progression at its finest.

Beat AV in XI yet?

Easy content from SE, right? Simple mechanics, right?

How many years did it take for a legit win?

THIS IS NOT FFXI,

It's 2015 ALMOST and an entirely different game. Impossible Mechanics are different than challenging mechanics. TURN 9 is Challenging, Turn 9 is NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

And on that note: I'm done with this Forum Topic, I figured out it's basically just a bunch of people asking for content to get nerfed because -> they are the 1 person that wipes the raid -> they are too busy to play this game -> they don't want to work on something and progress with other people -> they want to be able to carry people, or don't have the patience for them to learn.

So their solution is: Make the game suck by Nerfing Content! ... Yea, great logic.

[Aethaeryn]

It is a Big Deal actually.

It presents a negative idea to the development team, that somehow they are creating raid content in the first place that is somehow WAYYYYY too difficult for the FFXIV playerbase. So then when developing future content, they will ALWAYS ease up on mechanics. Pretty soon the "past content Nerf" will expand into "current content Nerf". Don't think this will happen? If this Nerf Trend continues, you can bet top dollar that it WILL HAPPEN.

Nice slippery slope argument there. Plenty of games nerf old content when new content is added without suddenly dumbing down the new content. You can't know that SE will start making all encounters easy until it happens.

[Hyrist]

It is a Big Deal actually.

It presents a negative idea to the development team, that somehow they are creating raid content in the first place that is somehow WAYYYYY too difficult for the FFXIV playerbase. So then when developing future content, they will ALWAYS ease up on mechanics. Pretty soon the "past content Nerf" will expand into "current content Nerf". Don't think this will happen? If this Nerf Trend continues, you can bet top dollar that it WILL HAPPEN.

People enjoy challenging content, that is the truth. Because 1 person can't overcome the challenge and they constantly wipe the raid, instead nerf the fight for 7 other party members??? No thanks. That is BACKWARDS progression at its finest.

I'll take that bet.

Nothing in the entire year of precedent we've established has there ever been an indication they would /ever/ budge on current content.

See: Atma.

There's a very clear trend to follow here that they've kept to in spite of uproar on either side, and they've not budged an inch on it, much to the determent and success depending on which end of the seesaw you sit upon at any particular time. It's six months before they make adjustment. Half a year to cover top end content before adjustments start, which is usually a couple weeks after the new content comes out.

So yes, top dollar? What does that mean to you? Because I would put money against your prediction. Precedent is on my side in this matter this one looks like a real safe bet to take. If anything, they've added Savage Coil, which is harder content that they have not made any announcements to change. So really, the facts weigh heavily against you. Are you sure you want to put money against this, because I'd gladly take it from you if you're just offering to give it away.

[VahnValbosce]

I'll take that bet.

Ok take that bet then. I'm done with this topic. Nobody is changing anyones mind, it will never happen.

You can all continue to thumbs-up eachothers posts to make eachother feel special and then get your content nerfed.

Then once all the content is extremely easy and takes 30 minutes to clear, you'll sit around wondering why half the playerbase has quit and the entire game has gone Free 2 Play. Who will be to blame then? OH WAIT, It must of been those nasty hardcore elitist players that ruin every single game!!!

LOL... utter non-sense.