Booing when Coil2 Nerf was announced

[Alukah]

Great story. Showcases the grim reality of what nerfing/echo buffs indirectly do for players who are just bad at this game - gives a false sense of progression and "being good." It's not even about being "elitist jerks." This falls on the responsibility of the specific bad player in question. Bad apples are just bad apples, it's as simple as that lol.

I don't know how you ended up making nerfing/echo buffs responsible for that, all I got from that story is that people are hypocrites, that bad dragoon only managed to cross that wall due to people carrying her, and apparently the same people were trying to carry her again in T9, then why complain about her if you are the one letting her pass through content she's not capable of beating EVEN with the echo?

The echo is not letting "baddies" go through coils, it's run sellers and carriers the ones at fault here.

[Krr]

The echo is not letting "baddies" go through coils, it's run sellers and carriers the ones at fault here.

As an update, there's still 3 - sometimes 4 - SCOB run sellers in PF on Excalibur this week. All of them advertise that they have downed all turns on Savage.

It's seriously just such cognitive dissonance that in one breath the hardcore community will complain about 'baddies' getting 'carried' by echo buffs etc through coils, when you can literally spend a few million gil to get your clear from some of the top guilds on the server while, literally, a corpse from 100 to 0.

Until we realize that nerfing old content, making it less exclusive, and trying to make old content accessible to a casual crowd and attempting teach and introduce more people to hardcore raiding cuts deep into these peoples' wallets.

Yesterday I saw the 100 myth marker in a T6 *clear group* and everyone began to panic and link their High Allagan to prove that they had clears. Ironically, they were the same players who died to the first Boquet of the run.~

[NyarukoW]

...
These nerfs allow this type of player through to T10.
And the cycle will continue.

So what. Poking fun a some DRG is just a red herring and irrelevant to the discussion of difficulty adjustment. They won't be the first to clear final coil. They depend on others for carry, their skill is having charisma and having other players willing to help, or somehow able to work the markets and get gil Who are you to judge that they are not good enough. And the cycle must continue, because SE need the continued subscription.

...
.. preserving challenge in this game.

The challenge is always preserved by the having the latest content at hardest difficulty, e.g. final coil. The other stuff, BCOB, SCOB, get reduce difficulty so they are added to smoothly ramp the learning curve.

-------------------------

sadly the learning curve into the game is a mess up total.
i means the dungeon that are means to teach us stuff are joke....

Players have themselves to blame for not using the dungeons to learn. The tools are there, but people need to make the active choice to use them. But it seems everyone is in a rush, so they will learn when they hit wall, when the learning curve spikes up. That is not a terrible thing either. Players with more experience just needs to be more patient and guide these people. But instead they want to exclude them and then turn around sell carries and promote RMT.

[Magis]

Snip

A whole lot of nothing in that post except OMG THEY DON'T AGREE WITH ME LET ME JUST CALL THEM A SLEW OF NAMES.

No one is saying you shouldn't be able to get into coil at all. They are saying coil shouldn't be changed. You have the same chance as everyone else in this game. And screw off with this "elites" BS. The only "elites" in FFXIV are those who do world firsts, BlueGartr and the like. Coil is one of the most accessible raids in the MMOs I have played (try vanilla WoW, where you needed a 40 man group, and had to progress through each raid first), and the fact people STILL complain about it boggles my mind.

If the problem is you can't find people to clear T5, then how will a nerf solve that? Or do you want T5 to be soloable now? You're telling me that your FC or LSes you are in won't help get a group together?

[wicked-one]

A whole lot of nothing in that post except OMG THEY DON'T AGREE WITH ME LET ME JUST CALL THEM A SLEW OF NAMES.

I was looking for words, thx you found them.


I really want to Quote myself from another Post, as this is how i feel about it

This my friend, i want to explain (from my PoV)

It's because of the time and effort (and of course emotions) I put into beating those Turns... it is not like a static goes in there, try 4-5 times and cake is eaten.
We managed to Down T9 last week for the first time, after weeks of frustrating wipes, over and over. Not to mention the Ton's of Gil burned away for Buffood and Repairs.
Also on a personal level, how many times your significant other was disappointed, because you sat staring at a screen until 3 o'clock instead of doing something with him/her...
You really sacrifice a lot for this.


So imagine you are a Sports Athlete, you train years of years, and achieve to set the World Record in Pole Vaulting. Now you retire and the year after your record get's vaporised because they now allow rocket-driven shoes ;-)

Of course, beating Coil it is a virtual achievment - not to be compared with professional Sports. But still, we feel betrayed by the fact that what we achieved now get's literally handed out on the silver plate, just because some do not have the endurance to do it the way it was designed for.

but as argues are in the Internet, people with that mindset will click like, those who havent will result in ... jeah, exactly the above.
never a mind was changed on an internet board, no matter how good your arguments are...

that last line should be my new signature ^^

[Coatl]

but as argues are in the Internet, people with that mindset will click like, those who havent will result in ... jeah, exactly the above.
never a mind was changed on an internet board, no matter how good your arguments are...

It's true. It doesn't matter what argument you string up, you will most likely not win any appeals from the other side. Instead we have name calling like "elitist" and "casuals" and "lazy peasants." This will widen the gap even further between the two sides that are butting heads right now.

What SE should do instead of nerfing coil is do something to make 1st coil and 2nd coil worth running again besides making it easier. That way it's not dead content like 1st coil, where its hard to clear because not many people are doing it.

[Tiggy]

How does someone completing content after it's been toned-down affect your having completed it at its hardest.. at all?

I do believe I've thoroughly explained that above. If you cared to read it.

If you read most of my threads you would see I personally have no issue with the way SE has chosen to slowly nerf the old content at all. A minor tweak to ADS, echo, and better gear were plenty in my opinion as they kept many of the mechanics in place. I have a problem who want it to be even easier than that so that anyone and their dog can face roll it. If new players don't have a progression system that slowly ramps up in difficulty we will see a situation where average game skill decreases unless you are someone actually tackling the harder content. The only content would be super easy or super hard. There will be no middle ground between easy and hard, and that will discourage people further and propagate an even more extreme skill gap than we already see today.

You won't hurt my ego by making the fights easier, but you may very well hurt the game and I do care about that.

It's about game balance and player expectations. Tsuwu's story above is a great example of what happens when people get carried through the content that was supposed to be a stepping stone. They get to tougher content, can't handle it, and then the cycle continues. You ask the raiders to "Try to step outside yourself and read some of the remarks here" but I ask of you to do the same thing. Stop thinking about the lowest common denominator for 1 second and actually consider the side effects on the community and this game. My argument never came from a place of personal achievement, ego, or elitism. Your broad strokes and generalizations just attempt to lump us all together simply because we raid and you try to brush us off as out of touch and self centered. Like we all sell runs or something. (AN ACT ME AND MY FC HAVE NEVER DONE THANK YOU VERY MUCH) I dislike your generalizations. I dislike how you lump us all together the bad and the good.

Why is it so impossible for people to make an argument without sweeping generalizations and insults? For the court Exhibit D. This many pages deep and the point still stands.

Many people from both sides argue their points very nicely and in a friendly way, but the ones that loose their temper and jump to insults the quickest tend to be from the non raiding camp. That's just my personal observation anyway.

Thanks for once again showing that the people with the shortest fuse tend to be the non-raiders.

[wicked-one]

People I've talked to have suggested buying my wins. F that. I don't want to be carried. I don't want to be handed my progress. I want to earn the wins myself; that's the point of playing, to me.

As I just found this sentences in your post, so I quite dont see how your mind is set.

You WANT to beat the content and achieve it by yourself, but you want an nerf so only to find people willing to do it with you? ...

[Tiggy]

As I just found this sentences in your post, so I quite dont see how your mind is set.

You WANT to beat the content and achieve it by yourself, but you want an nerf so only to find people willing to do it with you? ...

Right? That sounds like all that most of us want as well. Honestly sounds like the community or FC on her server is the reason she has a problem. If people are telling her to go pay for it then there is a serious problem. You need a more friendly environment in your FC. I'm personally excited to run t6-9 with the other raid groups in my FC and to help all the players who barely got to touch it. It will be just like 2.2 when coil 1 opened up. It was a solid 2-3 months of super fun dungeon runs with FC friends. Hoping for the same this time around too.