Booing when Coil2 Nerf was announced

[Silverharp]

stuff

What? This doesn't have anything to do with coil nerfs....like at all. As soon as the group noticed that not only did this DRG have absolutely no idea what (s)he were doing, but was actually blaming the rest of the group for their poor performance, they should've kicked them immediately. The only thing allowing people like this into the further turns are the people who for some reason, won't kick them for being a douche.

[Tsuwu]

What? This doesn't have anything to do with coil nerfs....like at all. As soon as the group noticed that not only did this DRG have absolutely no idea what (s)he were doing, but was actually blaming the rest of the group for their poor performance, they should've kicked them immediately.

It doesn't directly deal with nerfs, no.
The connection lies in that she was only able to clear T5 after the 20% echo and other buffs. However, by her clearing Nerfed Coil, she expected the same in T9.
She will likely expect the same in T13.

She might just be an isolated case, but that seems naïve to me.

Also, the group kept trying their best to get somewhere with her in the group as a kindness, but when she starting insulting others in TS, 5/8 just dropped.

[Dererk]

I for one don't mind nerfing of old content I just don't like people selling runs. But I would like to clear it while its still hard.SO ON THAT NOTE.....has any one ever bothered to ASK SE to let us turn the nurf mod off in pre made party's....just a thought

[ReplicaX]

It doesn't directly deal with nerfs, no.

I feel this is more on the community policing side.

Overall, if someone isn't learning from mistakes, accepting polite constructive criticism, or working with their other party members, they shouldn't be carried. Your friends that carried them through T5, got that DRG past that gate.

I don't think there is much the Dev Team can do. They let players pay for clears and groups sell them. Many players carry friends, FC members, or mutual as well. Ppl are gonna find ways through that gate for the reward.

I spent Oct and Nov of 2013 helping various skill lvls of my FC to learn Titan HM as these dodge mechanics weren't going away and it was the perfect roadblock to teach ppl and get a proper mindset instead of a privileged one.

[Gucci_Charms]

Just a minor point in case, here...

Was watching an FC mate's stream of T9, as she was running with a pick up group.
There was a DRG in the group with low damage output, dying to Dynamo, getting exploded on constantly, getting meteors dropped on her head, etc.

And the DRG blamed the group for not carrying her.

Then, we thought back to launch. This same DRG was one of the vocal ones about nerfing T5. Never got her clear until, after months of complaints, she was carried by some friends of ours.
No sense of accomplishment. No struggle. Just easy mode.
And here she is in T9, expecting - even demanding from team members that they make up for her low damage output (Which was 1/3 of our WAR's).

These nerfs allow this type of player through to T10.
And the cycle will continue.

But alas, it's already been decided. Hopefully this outcry will reach some receptive ears at Mr. G's team, and have some type of productive sway in regards to preserving challenge in this game.

Great story. Showcases the grim reality of what nerfing/echo buffs indirectly do for players who are just bad at this game - gives a false sense of progression and "being good." It's not even about being "elitist jerks." This falls on the responsibility of the specific bad player in question. Bad apples are just bad apples, it's as simple as that lol.

People who can't beat T5 are in for a very rude awakening in the second coil.

Very true. The QQ from T7 and T9 next week will be interesting.

[Tiggy]

Great story. Showcases the grim reality of what nerfing/echo buffs indirectly do for players who are just bad at this game - gives a false sense of progression and "being good." It's not even about being "elitist jerks." This falls on the responsibility of the specific bad player in question.

Personally I think the game needs more modes or activities to help those players. I'm a big fan of the idea that dummies should pop your current DPS up every so often. Makes it easy to actually test rotations. I'm also a fan of more content that's a mix of leve's or hests that have ramping difficulties in order to help players progress own their own and to bring those skills to a group. Since nerfs, echo, and gear will continually make the older content easier it would be beneficial to maintain some sort of structure for players to learn from. Especially since we out gear dungeons so much that they really don't help in this regard anymore.

[Tiggy]

What nerfs exactly are they putting in? I never saw them listen anywhere

Well we have the standard iLvl increase from new gear. Echo will be implemented just like coil 1, and they did use t7 (if I recall correctly) as an example of a turn they were going to slightly ease the mechanics on. Not to make them really easy they said. Just to remove some of the instant death type stuff. Beyond that we have no specifics. Using coil 1 as an indicator the only change they made was ADS's paralysis would no longer last as long so missing a silence wasn't a wipe 85% of the time. So I'm expecting a light touch.

[ReplicaX]

Using coil 1 as an indicator the only change they made was ADS's paralysis would no longer last as long so missing a silence wasn't a wipe 85% of the time. So I'm expecting a light touch.

Folks need to remember they also didn't fix the ADS enrage that bypassed Rot while coil was still in its unaltered state. There was much heated discussion on that as that bypass became a norm for many groups.

[ReplicaX]

This falls on the responsibility of the specific bad player in question.

Do you feel the friends' party that previously carried that player through that T5 gate had no influence or responsibility in this? As he did state they infact carried her.

What are your thoughts on groups selling clears and getting these types of players on the same content & progression you are dedicating your time towards?

Just want your opinion, really has nothing to do with nerfs as they are on content you are via other means.

[Tiggy]

Do you feel the friends' party that previously carried that player through that T5 gate had no influence or responsibility in this? As he did state they infact carried her.

What are your thoughts on groups selling clears and getting these types of players on the same content & progression you are dedicating your time towards?

Just want your opinion, really has nothing to do with nerfs as they are on content you are via other means.

Carries are bad. Carries are only called carries because that player didn't have what it took to earn the victory and thus was carried through. They end up beating the fight, getting the rewards, getting access to harder content, but they didn't develop the skills necessary to be at that point of progression.

I've seen the bad effects in my own FC. For the longest time we would just help people get wins. Someone would pop up and say they needed Titan Ex or some other fight, and we would grab 7 people who knew the fight and could help to do it. At first this was all well and good and the less hardcore players were happy. Then as more players were carried we began running into problems. It became Need a Titan ex? Sure let's grab these 7 people who all say they've beaten it before. Then we wipe repeatedly because several people clearly don't know how to do the fight. Then what should have been a carry turns into a tough training run with people who all supposedly got the win. We inadvertently were lowering the skill of our FC by doing carries and it was hurting our ability to actually help people at all. Then when we would build "farming" groups for primals we would accept people who beat it before only to see a farm turn into a training run despite everyone having a win and this can frustrate people greatly. There is a time an place for training runs. In our guild people tend to be very helpful, but when "farming" is attached to the run then people expect wins. This is the time for those of us who learned the fight to get in and get what we want real fast. Seeing those turn into training runs is extremely frustrating.

Simply point getting the win writes a check that your skill should be able to cash and when they don't it creates frustration.

These days I'm less inclined to do carries for members. I'll help anytime but with it I carry a rule. If the person we are helping is dead and it's unreasonable to res them for the win then I will wipe it up. I will help you get the win and help you train for it with a team of 7 who is good so that you can focus on what you're doing to learn, but you must have genuinely earned your win as well. This helps enhance the skill of our players and I hope our camaraderie. We still get them wins and they get better at the game.