Booing when Coil2 Nerf was announced

[Ilitsa]

You can do this, albeit only on an individual level. Click off the buff like any other buff.

Oooh, really?! I'll have to do this then, thanks!

[Evtrai]

I think the solution should be that people that cleared it before nerf should get a title, that way their petty ego isn't hurt.

[Hyrist]

I almost turned off the stream at the booing of nerfing coil, so soon after people were cheering for the Atma adjustments.

Hypocrisy at its finest. The design policy of this game has not changed since it was first announced: Dated content gets adjusted and becomes easier over time. Seeming this content literally gates further content behind it, that's a necessity if players who are starting later on are going to have any hope of catching up. Statics often don't break static to help newer players, which means those who have not established close connections often get left behind, and that's where subscriptions truly bleed out.


"It's coil, it's supposed to be hard." is a narrow-sighted, selfish perspective that bears no concept of longevity of the game in it. Of course coil is supposed to be hard. But hard, as illustrated by players on these boards, is highly subjective. What may be mildy hard, or even simple to some people in the playerbase is downright impossible to others, especially given that no everyone can have a single dedicated static to work with. As content gets outdated, players of differing skill levels should have the option to experience it without the same levels of frustration and challenge as if it was current.

There are only two arguments in this that can be made that aren't absolutist in quality: The timing of adjustments for raids, and the preservation of Savage Coil. I'm all for having a super hard, unaltered version of Coil for players to challenge regardless of what patch it is, so long as there is a path that is adjusted so that new or less dedicated players can experience and clear the content and enjoy the story. Telling players they should not progress through old content purely because it's against your elitist ideals, not cool at all.

This argument itself is old-hat, and the outspoken players who prefer to ostracize their neighbors because they wish to remain special are never going to get their way in this.

If the argument instead is about wanting to have more time or simply preserve a instance of Coil the way it was originally designed so it may be experienced and conquered by those who still want to push through the challenge? That's a far better argument to have, and I would support it.

[Kezy_Kaatapoh]

I'd just like to point out that, IIRC, people booed when the question of whether or not they were planning nerfs aside from the Echo was asked, not when they announced Echo for it. I'm pretty sure that was expected and people were displeased with the idea of changing the actual mechanics, which is not something they announced. They only said Echo buff.

[Titor]

I do not know why the hardcore elite raiders need turns 6-9, 10-13, ramuh ex, and shiva ex to satiate their need for content. Are statics that are this committed really going to schedule time to run 6-9 anymore, outside of the first initial week or two to get gear for everyone to glamour? Probably not. Are these statics still running levi ex and mog ex on a regular basis for their inferior item levels? Not that I know of.

I am not sure why releasing 6-9 to the less dedicated raiders would hurt anyone, and am all for nerfing second coil.

[DoctorPepper]

Have to agree with the booing at fan fest, leave coil alone please! I enjoy the challenge and will enjoy pulling other people through it. Hard to get better if you don't challenge yourself, the main scenario is not tied to coil and the only content locked out by it is harder coil turns so I don't see the difficulty as being a problem. Higher ilvl will eventually nerf it anyways as well.

[Riepah]

Any content that requires a large group is only as difficult as it is to get a competent group together. Raiding isn't that hard on the individual. Once you learn the fight, and if you are accompanied by a group of people who have also learned it, it becomes easy. The perceived "difficulty" comes just from the fact that it's so easy for one person to mess up and screw everyone else over. If people actually looked for real difficulty, they'd look for solo challenges, where success or failure really depend on the individual alone, not on whether or not the rest of the group does their job right.

[Titor]

Any content that requires a large group is only as difficult as it is to get a competent group together.

This this this. I have been trying to pug a group for t7 for weeks now. I know, I KNOW I can one-shot it. It is never me messing up that wipes the raid, but one person who missed voice or shriek or failed to pick up a mob in time is the reason I have not gotten it down yet. I got it to near 5%, but the DPS were not pulling hard enough and enrage wiped us. It is not my inability to do it, but others.
I cannot get into a "weekly clear" party as I still have the myth bonus, and getting a static is too hard for my schedule.

[DoctorPepper]

I have been trying to pug a group for t7 for weeks now. I know, I KNOW I can one-shot it. It is never me messing up that wipes the raid, but one person who missed voice or shriek or failed to pick up a mob in time is the reason I have not gotten it down yet. I got it to near 5%, but the DPS were not pulling hard enough and enrage wiped us. It is not my inability to do it, but others.
I cannot get into a "weekly clear" party as I still have the myth bonus, and getting a static is too hard for my schedule.

Once the lockout is removed there will be an influx of players (both learning and kill groups) doing second coil, especially turn 9, to get clears and gear up alts. Right now the lockout is restricting the number of capable players trying this content so I think a static group will be less required after 2.4. Also, the gear is going up 10-20 ilvls above current second coil tier and there will be no cap on soldiery/sand which in itself, may have alleviated the dps problem that you mention in your post. Personally I think you should consider trying it post 2.4 before calling for a nerf, the challenge is part of the fun.

[Alberel]

The problem isn't that the mechanics are difficult. The problem is that one bad player on your team can trigger a 1-shot mechanic to wipe the entire party. You can have 7 good players and they won't be able to progress because that one bad player always gets the party swallowed by Rafflesia; always petrifies the party; always triggers the wrong tower; always drops a comet too close to another.

Now I know the elitists out there will retort to the effect of 'well find a new member'. Unfortunately that is getting harder and harder to do as more and more people settle into statics . The majority of the time your options for replacing a member are either to poach someone from another static or find a fresh 50 to gear up and teach the fight to which just leads you in a circle.

A few months from now almost no one will even be running second coil and it will be almost impossible to find competent groups for it.

The reason people are still stuck on T5 is because the echo and mechanics changes do nothing to alleviate the articial difficulty created by 1-shot mechanics. T5 was nerfed in name alone considering the thing that kills most parties is twisters and dreadknights which continue to 1-shot regardless of echo or outgearing.

So at the end of the day Coil will always have to be nerfed simply to allow 1 good player to get by with 7 bads... because eventually that 1 good player will have no choice in who he runs the content with due to lack of interest from other players.

Before any elitists disagree with me, please tell us the last time you voluntarily helped another player to run coil content without any expectation of a reward. Exactly.