With things like third party DBMs coming to XIV... when are we getting addon support?

[Risvertasashi]

I love the presumption that these things are "needed" for endgame content.

Yes, this game would be completely impossibru without aural/audio warnings!

Face it, people are just too lazy to be bothered to pay attention to things that already have visual cues.

Didn't read much of the thread?

As has been discussed, this is mostly a QoL thing. As with aircraft, aural systems aren't needed. But they're helpful. And addons bring a lot more to the table than aural warnings.

[nugglets]

Didn't read much of the thread?

As has been discussed, this is mostly a QoL thing. As with aircraft, aural systems aren't needed. But they're helpful. And addons bring a lot more to the table than aural warnings.

I read enough of it. Boils down to wanting extra cues for things that already exist or saying "but WoW does it!"

And my statement was directed specifically at the OP, which said "Do we really want a repeat of FFXI, where third party tools become necessary for endgame?"

Third party tools are never necessary. They are a crutch.

They can make a more customizable UI without having to open the proverbial Pandoras API Box.

[Risvertasashi]

They can make a more customizable UI without having to open the proverbial Pandoras API Box.

Hmm. Might be nitpicking here on exactly what a customizable UI means, but it's possible that could meet my personal preference for filling in the current UI's gaps. Though it's hard to imagine a flexible system without incorporating something like LUA. But even if managed that... the rise of unofficial addons, I think, shows there's desire for these other things. Making the stuff that isn't shady in concept able to use an official API gets people away from those programs that also incorporate stuff that is pretty shady.

You also don't have to look just at WoW. TSW in particular has some great UI addons for party management and many other things, and EVE online has had great success planning utilities and such using its API as well. Neither of these games had the problems WoW had/have. TSW, for example, lets you have addons such as friends list with notes and auto lot/pass on dungeon loot, but doesn't allow any automatic firing of abilities or, AFAIK, even auto turn ins. For RPers, there's an addon that lets them view character backgrounds and other story related information about someone. And so on.

[Granyala]

Third party tools are never necessary. They are a crutch.

You are very naive.
The worldfirst crowd WILL use them to get an advantage.
Other people competing for cutting edge progression will either have to use them too or they will be slower since having a DBM WILL make things easier.

Once the top tier crowd uses these programs (assuming SE doesn't go on a banning rampage), usage of these programs will trickle down to the more average groups, because they also compete with each other (just not on a WF level) and they too want to be better than the competition.

It isn't a question whether you need these programs/addons from a gamedev perspective.
Take it from a WoW-Heroic raider: you don't. Not even in WoW. The devs put everything you need right there in the game.

But having predictions / ability cooldown displays make stuff easier (A LOT easier) and that's why people use them.
Also, rearranging the information displayed and using multiple channels of perception makes stuff easier to read / notice. Esp with audio signals, because typically your visual perception is already quite taxed during a boss fight.

In the end players are about efficiency. They want to do the hardest bosses possible for them with the least amount of wipes they can get away with.
Any tool or addon that facilitates this goal WILL BE USED until the developer breaks it.

[Dwill]

Third party tools are never necessary. They are a crutch.

You're speaking like people that would use them wouldn't be able to complete the content without it and we both know that this isn't true. They are a QoL tools, nothing more. If you don't like them, don't use them, it's that simple.

I love the presumption that these things are "needed" for endgame content.

Yes, this game would be completely impossibru without aural/audio warnings!

Face it, people are just too lazy to be bothered to pay attention to things that already have visual cues.

It's quite funny that you're trying to cleverly insult the people that would be using these when a big part of the key demographic for these are people that have cleared more content than you already.

I think this sentence is written incorrectly. I believe you meant to say, "people that would use them".

English is hard stuff. Thanks for the correction!

[Exstal]

You're speaking like people that wouldn't use them wouldn't be able to complete the content without it and we both know that this isn't true. They are a QoL tools, nothing more. If you don't like them, don't use them, it's that simple.

I think this sentence is written incorrectly. I believe you meant to say, "people that would use them".