(Extremely Gimped Iconic Summon) that is EGIS

[Exstal]

Don't forget "fraction of the effort", because it's obvious the real reason they did this was not for lore, but to quickly get 3 summons ready for launch.

I wonder how much of SMN design was made by Tanaka's team and how much of it was scrapped by Yoshida's team to quickly fit the class with the new engine before launch.

I bet almost all of it. Looking at 1.0 and 1.23, because I didn't get too far into the game back then, it resembled FFXI a lot. So chances are SMN would have been very similiar to its FFXI counterpart.

[Madoka]

Don't forget "fraction of the effort"

I understand most of you have no idea what goes into game design or creating things but it takes far more effort to create an entirely NEW model, animate it, give it various animations and more than to just scale down an existing model and re-assign existing animations.

Seriously I'm pretty annoyed at how often people think Egis are a lazy replacement for "muh awesome summon"

Also nearly everything after 1.0 was Yoshi, as Tanaka didn't want classic FF jobs in the game.

[Tupsi]

Seriously I'm pretty annoyed at how often people think Egis are a lazy replacement for "muh awesome summon"

Look at the Egi Skills - They're essentially the same as their Carbuncle counterpart and yes, there's a carbuncle for EVERY egi that'll exist, whether we, as players, get them or not is debatable. Now look at the designs - Unless you're some masterful developer who defies all logic...how does:

1. Reskinning and changing a few values on skills
and
2. Using a minimalistic design

Not equal "lazy replacement"? The asset creation is less work than what they did with XI and all they did was scale down the summons and remove some of their aura effect.

Also nearly everything after 1.0 was Yoshi, as Tanaka didn't want classic FF jobs in the game.

Incorrect - When yoshida took over he said his first goal was to push out what Tanaka's team started, that included patches up to 1.19. 1.20 - 1.23 scenario and updates were his work. Tanaka wanted the traditional FF jobs in the game but he wanted to give us the ability to customize how we played them.

[Alukah]

I understand most of you have no idea what goes into game design or creating things but it takes far more effort to create an entirely NEW model, animate it, give it various animations and more than to just scale down an existing model and re-assign existing animations.

Seriously I'm pretty annoyed at how often people think Egis are a lazy replacement for "muh awesome summon"

Also nearly everything after 1.0 was Yoshi, as Tanaka didn't want classic FF jobs in the game.

Must be hard for one single individual, but good thing SE isn't one single individual.

They have done better, there's no doubt it's within their capabilities to do better.

[Dyvid]

Incorrect - When yoshida took over he said his first goal was to push out what Tanaka's team started, that included patches up to 1.19. 1.20 - 1.23 scenario and updates were his work. Tanaka wanted the traditional FF jobs in the game but he wanted to give us the ability to customize how we played them.

That is incorrect, Tanaka wanted player to build their own job by mixing and matching skill. One good example was Thief were he told players to level pug, gla, and a few others to make a THF. Tanaka: In FFXIV we made it a point not to use the word “job” at all in the system. Gladiators and conjurers are “classes,” and the idea is to take abilities learned from these classes and put them together to create your own job. source

[Tupsi]

That's what people don't realize - SE has and can do better, they're taking a minimalistic approach when it comes to this game to fit into the "correct mold". Look at XI, they had no problems making those Avatars, even eventually giving us access to the Prime only skills, they also had no problem giving us..what...over 120 Blue Mage skills? All of which are useful in their own way? They're creative, they can do better.

Let's be real, unless you have NEVER played FF before, when you hear Summoner was to be release, what did you think of when you heard of Titan?

One of these for example:





or

This:

?

Whoever says they expected the potato they're lying

That is incorrect, Tanaka wanted player to build their own job vary mixing and matching skill. One good example was Thief were he told players to level pug, gla, and a few others to make a THF. Tanaka: In FFXIV we made it a point not to use the word “job” at all in the system. Gladiators and conjurers are “classes,” and the idea is to take abilities learned from these classes and put them together to create your own job. source

Which..is exactly what I stated. He wanted to use the standard jobs but the way we played them to be more customized. Especially if you take a look into the dats, something you've clearly never done, which is why you seem to not understand when people mention something like that. This is why he purposefully not used traditional names, despite all of the obvious skills being from x Job in FF, including XI.

[Dyvid]

Tupsi: Tanaka wanted the traditional FF jobs in the game but he wanted to give us the ability to customize how we played them.

Tanaka: In FFXIV we made it a point not to use the word “job” at all in the system. Gladiators and conjurers are “classes,” and the idea is to take abilities learned from these classes and put them together to create your own job

What you said makes it sound like he wanted FF:Tactics which isn't true. And I didn't need to read the dats because I played that hoard version of the game. It was bad, the player base knew it was bad, and it was why we asked Yoshi-P in 2010 to redesign the whole thing.

[Dwill]

Let's be real, unless you have NEVER played FF before, when you hear Summoner was to be release, what did you think of when you heard of Titan?

Except we don't have Titan, we have an Egi. If we had Titan, it would like like Titan but we don't so it doesn't and that's intended. How hard is it to comprehend ?

Tupsi: Tanaka wanted the traditional FF jobs in the game but he wanted to give us the ability to customize how we played them.

Tanaka: In FFXIV we made it a point not to use the word “job” at all in the system. Gladiators and conjurers are “classes,” and the idea is to take abilities learned from these classes and put them together to create your own job

What you said makes it sound like he wanted FF:Tactics which isn't true. And I didn't need to read the dats because I played that hoard version of the game. It was bad, the player base knew it was bad, and it was why we asked Yoshi-P in 2010 to redesign the whole thing.

Tupsi misquoting someone ? Color me shocked.

Must be hard for one single individual, but good thing SE isn't one single individual.

They have done better, there's no doubt it's within their capabilities to do better.

Can they do better ? More than likely. Was it rushed like you said ? Not at all. Madoka's explanation is on the spot.

[Dyvid]

Fudge it. It's put up or shut up time. I posted this in the London Fan Fest ask the Devs. If you really want an answer like the post.
This is still a hot topic on the general discussion and dps role forums. Can you please explain the reason for the design of Summoner's Egi and would you ever consider changing it?

[LineageRazor]

Fudge it. It's put up or shut up time. I posted this in the London Fan Fest ask the Devs. If you really want an answer like the post.
This is still a hot topic on the general discussion and dps role forums. Can you please explain the reason for the design of Summoner's Egi and would you ever consider changing it?

This question has been asked, almost word-for-word, AND ANSWERED in the past, so I doubt it will do much good here. To briefly paraphrase the answer given: "Primals are too godly and awesome for players to summon them in their full godly awesomeness. Summoners summon a fragment of their power, and the new design is intended to represent this." Doesn't really answer why they couldn't have made them more closely resemble the original primals, but if they didn't address that issue then, I doubt they'll address it for your question either.

My guess is that the model designers for the Egis had strict limits on polygon count to prevent console strain when you have a bunch of Summoners around at the same time, and within those limits they couldn't make an approximation of of the original primals that didn't look horribly crude. So, instead, they created abstract approximations of the Primals - entities that evoke the nature of the Primal without being direct copies. I don't think it's a bad comprimise, if SMN is going to be a pet job. (Whether it SHOULD be a pet job at all is another matter entirely...)