(Extremely Gimped Iconic Summon) that is EGIS

[Fayto]

snip

I wonder how many times we have to point out that Summoners in ever FF were just White/Black Mages with huge mana costing nukes that were overshadowed by the ara/aga tier.

[Tupsi]

Not to mention, with lore, the main reasons Primals are a danger is because they suck up aether just by being there, and as everything is made of aether... Not a good idea.

Technically, you as a Black Mage, Conjurer and White Mage suck up Aether weaving your spells. Which is why Arcanima is more of a "lighter" form of aether manipulation. This is why, much like in FFXI, you never summon the actual beast itself, you summon a 'projection' of it, or a 'fraction of power.' Also, you may notice that it's not even summoning that hurts it the most, it's the constant resummoning of the powerful beat as their aether basically "recycles" when you kill them - This is why, per lore, in order to summon an actual primal you need to be in the presence of a primal as it dies in order to absorb its aether. (which is usually bad news for you.)

Per 1.0 lore we (players) can summon primals on our own if we so chose - because echo.

I wonder how many times we have to point out that Summoners in ever FF were just White/Black Mages with huge mana costing nukes that were overshadowed by the ara/aga tier.

By that logic Geomancer, Time Mage, Green Mage, any of the Lancer lines or Spellsword lines were nothing different from the base White/Black Mage and Warrior/Soldier/Knight/Lancer jobs. Meaning Dragoon was nothing special since Jump is nothing but another damage attack.

[Dyvid]

Well after the Lore panel we learned development comes first then lore is used to fill the gaps. This means the devs decided to not make summoner egi look just like the primals for specific reasons.. Then the lore team comes in and explains the design with story. The egi design is basically shaping an element in the form of a primal; titan is made of rock, ifrit from fire, garuda from wind.

Take a look at egi Ramuh. It's basically lightning wearing a coat:

[Dyvid]

Honestly I think your energy would be better served on telling the devs how you want Summoner's version of Shiva, Ramuh, and Leviathan to be fleshed out in 3.0.

[Fayto]

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No because they did different things, summoners in FF did NOT do different things. They were Black/White mages that had the ability to summon yet never did because the Summons were a waste of MP(in games that had traditional summoning). Time Mage and Green Mage ARE nothing different, however, than Black Mage and White Mage since Time Magic and Green magic ARE White and Black magic. A few games seperated the two, Geomancer however did their magic based on the environment they were in. Again, nothing similar to White/Black Mage that could do things at will.

[Lemuria]

I wonder how many times we have to point out that Summoners in ever FF were just White/Black Mages with huge mana costing nukes that were overshadowed by the ara/aga tier.

Well, actually if you go by previous games Summons generally didn't HAVE an MP cost associated with them. It was often a set number of 'charges' or a special ability, such as Yuna or FFXII's 'mist' summons.

Final Fantasy 7's summons did have an MP cost associated with them but they were also mind-meltingly devastating. Capable of inflicting easily as much damage as a powerful limit break or more, especially with Knights of the Round (up to 130k damage!), beaten only by Omnislash for 150k damage.

FFXI's avatars have 'Blood Pact' abilities which could unleash strong damage on opponents, grant team buffs or even heal party members. Each avatar added something worthwhile, so it was always good to mix things up in a battle. There was also Astral Flow, which allowed you to unleash devastating skills, even rendering your party nigh invulnerable for a period or instantly destroying opponents with Zanetsuken with Alexander and Odin respectively.

FFXIV Egi's are... well, kind of weak. Putting aside their damage output, they only have four abilities each, most of which are purely attacks. The only Egi worth using is Garuda, with Titan only being useful as a tank for soloists and Ifrit being a melee only attacker. Their 'signature attack' is only mildly more damaging than their basic ones, and they have zero player buffs.

So yeah... FFXIV summons are kind of forgettable compared to their far more impressive history.

[Fayto]

snip.

Oh I'm not arguing that XIV's Egis aren't bad because they are, I'm just stating that Summoners in FF has been a subclass to everything else outside of the ones with a job system like Rydia and the like. Recently they've made summons more impactful, as with X's summons.

[Shikiseki]

I dunno, maybe we should send some of the minion designers into the EGI department - 95% of the minions are INFINITELY better than any of the egis.



And honestly, how hard can it be to replace a sprite o.o;

[Atomnium]

We should start a collection of this thread subject, it's a legendary one and got a lot of copies since the last 12 months xD

To resume :
1) both sides agree on the poor work of egis but eh, SE stated behind a #lore excuse (doesn't explain the poor quality texture of them though).
2) During the many discuss about smn job, the good ideas accepted as a compromise were things between contagion as smn skill and 50% bigger egis with better textures.
3) It's kinda too late for a change and it wouldn't be fair to other jobs if smn (alone) was getting a change as gift, get over it and enjoy your green vulture on dr*gs following you for the next 6 months
4) Right now, the dev team is focusing on 3.0, 10 more level on our smns will "maybe" change the problem into something more "acceptable".

On a personal note, there is a reason why I'm waiting the gun job <3. I won't have to deal anymore with my "pets / egis / things" and my FF fanCells will no longer commit sudoku over it every time when I'm thinking about the old school FF summons.

[Alukah]

Fraction of the power of primal, fraction of the look

Don't forget "fraction of the effort", because it's obvious the real reason they did this was not for lore, but to quickly get 3 summons ready for launch.

I wonder how much of SMN design was made by Tanaka's team and how much of it was scrapped by Yoshida's team to quickly fit the class with the new engine before launch.