Challenging 4-Man Content Please

[Sarynth]

Why stop at 4? I call for challenging 72 man content. Think front lines but with a PVE twist.

That actually sounds amzaing, but i can see it being a pin in duty finder.

[Odett]

You have to look at current content not content that gets invalidated. More specifically 2.4 content because all previous content is old doesn't compare to the new stuff.

Casuals get: 3 dungeons + Shiva HM
hardcore get: Shiva EX + Final Coil (4-5 turns)

So you see its about an even amount of content.

Not at all. As mentioned before, Coil counts as one dungeon, especially with lockouts. EX Primals aren't hardcore either. Those are probably the closest thing we have between casual and hardcore, and that's only 1 primal per patch (while the previous one becomes EZ Echo Mode).

Also, it is not an even amount of content because those 3 dungeons are dungeons we are doing on an almost daily basis in order to cap tomes. Those 3 dungeons are done more than anything else introduced in a major patch.

"You have to look at current content not content that gets invalidated. More specifically 2.4 content because all previous content is old doesn't compare to the new stuff."

It's not even content that gets "invalidated", new dungeons are basically already invalidated by that definition due to their required ilv disparity with the current ilv that tomes give you. Older dungeons are still relevant btw, just check your Hard Mode roulette.

Right now, there is not a single dungeon with 4 people that is challenging. If you want a challenge, you gotta go with 8, and 7 other people you enjoy playing with are not always on. I'd love to get 3 friends together within seconds and run challenging stuff for daily roulettes, instead of the facerolls that exist now. Hell, I'd settle for a "modifier" that would let you optionally up the challenge on 4 person dungeons.

I have mentioned this before in other threads, but it's silly of SE to only release one dungeon every other major patch that is the only place tuned for the gear that current tomes reward; that is extremely unbalanced. Right now, SE is saying "let us give you new gear that is tuned for one dungeon, and makes the majority of everything else faceroll time", and that's no fun. There's absolutely no feeling of danger in most of this game's content, it's almost like playing an old school game on God Mode on.

[Alukah]

But practically even for the casuals its useless - That's why Zumi is doing well by excluding them, old content is old for everyone, the gear progression in this game makes it so only one thing matters, for casuals in 2.2 it was soldiery (the dungeons themselves didn't matter, only the currency) in 2.3 ST, 2.4 will be currency again and 2.5 it will be WoD.

For raiders? Everything listed AND coil, because let's not forget that everyone ran/runs these dungeons and all CT iterations, since some BiS pieces are always spread out outside of coil.

Though I do agree with Nestama that we need more middle ground content.

[Odett]

[I]But practically even for the casuals its useless - That's why Zumi is doing well by excluding them, old content is old for everyone, the gear progression in this game makes it so only one thing matters, for casuals in 2.2 it was soldiery (the dungeons themselves didn't matter, only the currency) in 2.3 ST, 2.4 will be currency again and 2.5 it will be WoD.

For raiders? Everything listed AND coil, because let's not forget that everyone ran/runs these dungeons and all CT iterations, since some BiS pieces are always spread out outside of coil.

Though I do agree with Nestama that we need more middle ground content.

Sol is not the only currency that matters, though. Look at the Atma-Animus weapon process and all the Myth that you need. ST won't be relevant in 2.4 either. I know I'm gonna have a field day with it in order to gear up more alts, as well as running what will become the new Hard Mode roulettes to earn more Sol.

Your second paragraph is also a bit misleading. Yes, it is everything and Coil, but what is the only content that is challenging and also tuned to the current iLv? Only Coil. Even Ramuh, the latest Primal, is not tuned for 100-110. Are the arbiters the bane of most Ramuh groups? Yeah, but look at how many people multi-dot them, not many, and that is what will get you through that phase. I see people on my server requiring minimum ilv 100 for Ramuh groups and get destroyed by arbiters. It's not a matter of iLv, but rather properly dealing with 4 ads and being smart with your DoT usage. Ilv 120 won't get you through Ramuh if you cannot do that.

My main point is that if SE keeps releasing better gear, but nearly not enough content that is tuned for said gear level, and then makes the main way (the 3 current dungeons) of obtaining tokens a total joke compared to the ilv you can obtain by trading said tokens.

[Valoiz]

FFXIV have huge issues ATM

All 4 man content its TOO easy and mostly obsolete cuz drops garbage (ilv 55-70 items) and the "more challeging" ones (Pharos for example) also drop less tomestones.

New dung are really short and easy.

New updates are just the same Sht over and over again (more "vertical progresion" and gear treadmill)

Pre nerf AK and Pharos was really fun

[Alukah]

Sol is not the only currency that matters, though. Look at the Atma-Animus weapon process and all the Myth that you need. ST won't be relevant in 2.4 either. I know I'm gonna have a field day with it in order to gear up more alts, as well as running what will become the new Hard Mode roulettes to earn more Sol.

Soldiery, Myth, still doesn't invalidate my point, people do them for currency. Also I listed ST as 2.3, not 2.4.

Your second paragraph is also a bit misleading. Yes, it is everything and Coil, but what is the only content that is challenging and also tuned to the current iLv? Only Coil. Even Ramuh, the latest Primal, is not tuned for 100-110. Are the arbiters the bane of most Ramuh groups? Yeah, but look at how many people multi-dot them, not many, and that is what will get you through that phase. I see people on my server requiring minimum ilv 100 for Ramuh groups and get destroyed by arbiters. It's not a matter of iLv, but rather properly dealing with 4 ads and being smart with your DoT usage. Ilv 120 won't get you through Ramuh if you cannot do that.

No it's not misleading, low-end content is meant for everyone, while high-end content is specialized for hardcore, anyone seeking BiS will have to run through all of it. Saying "they have so much content and we only have coil" is more misleading.

My main point is that if SE keeps releasing better gear, but nearly not enough content that is tuned for said gear level, and then makes the main way (the 3 current dungeons) of obtaining tokens a total joke compared to the ilv you can obtain by trading said tokens.

I'm not disagreeing with that, in my first posts in this thread all I said was that the current dungeons would not be a faceroll if we had ilvl sync and that without ilvl sync hard dungeons would become a joke as soon as the average ilvl increases.

Either way, whatever they do, it wont be before the expansion, 2.4 and 2.5 are pretty much written in stone, dates can be delayed due to implementation but what is coming is already planned and I doubt they will make changes.

[Odett]

snip

iLv sync is just artificial difficulty though, and if SE releases better gear, then it makes sense to release more content suited for that gear. Another way to make dungeons not faceroll is to add mechanics that must be followed. Even if low ilv, impacting mechanics can increase the difficulty of a fight. Just look at Titan EX, whose minimum ilv is 67, yet it kicks people's asses due to its mechanics. That's why the new iLv 70 dungeons don't feel threatening in the least way. Thematically, yeah, they're cool as hell, but even the dungeons introduced in 2.1 have more mechanics than these. Siren will kick your ass if you don't follow mechanics, and so will the bird if you break too many eggs, as well as the first boss if you completely ignore the ads. 2.3 dungeons don't feel like that at all, who have way too many simplistic mechanics.

[Toodles]

^exactly, ilvl sync only does so much.