MMORPGs moving to 1-10 MS server side polling

[vp_cmc]

Does anyone here, who posts about 1 ms update, have any experience in developing client-server application and really understand what does it mean, when server has several thousand connections, and each one updates 1000 times per second? What are the issues with this, for example? It's not just about lowering some constant in code, it's way more complicated.

[Teirshin]

A list of names isn't difficult to sort no. Like I said you don't know anything about the data type or structure. You're talking about something you don't know. You're trivializing something you have no domain knowledge about because you're talking from a place of ignorance. If I had a dollar for everytime someone had a feature request and said "why don't you just" or "isn't it as simple as" then I wouldn't have to work anymore. IT's. More. Complicated. Than. You. Think.

I think more than SE does apparently. Sorting is one of the easiest things to do with computer data, no matter the data format.

I call it lazy on their part, and yet one more lame excuse.

[Teirshin]

Does anyone here, who posts about 1 ms update, have any experience in developing client-server application and really understand what does it mean, when server has several thousand connections, and each one updates 1000 times per second? What are the issues with this, for example? It's not just about lowering some constant in code, it's way more complicated.

Its far more complex than most people realize. Sitting at the end of the whole thing where massive networks are designed, I've seen what our engineers go through some days to account for traffic and loads.

They however, can sort a list pretty easily.

[Shurrikhan]

I feel like ISPs are still the leading problem ever since the improvements done to FFXIV's connectivity. However, it seems that these end up with their notorious routing problems far more often in FFXIV than in WoW. For example, each time I enter a new instance server in FFXIV I have a chance that my connection will switch from perfectly fine to having 10-second freezes and speed-ups about a third of the play-time (essentially unplayable), and the connection seems far more prone to bog down due to bandwidth throttling. In WoW, regardless of what server I'm temporarily transferred into, the route stays the same except when my ISP changes routes for 'prime time' usage (which merely causes occassional position-offsets, making pretty much only Backstabs and melee attacks on charging enemies annoying). Additionally my average (though easy enough to make up for) ping in FFXIV is around 320-480 ms, while it's around 20-45 in WoW.

[Tiggy]

no matter the data format.

Flat out false. You are incorrect sir.

Some data sets are immutable because they save memory, Immutable objects CAN NOT BE CHANGED. If you have an array of names and that array is immutable then you can not sort it. Period. If the array of names is immutable, and it likely is, it would help conserve ps3 memory, derease concurrency, simplify race conditions, and a few more pros. It also creates a situation where the names would be unsortable.

This is both A) a scenario where the data type prevents it and B) a plausible scenario for why ffxiv can't do it.

This is just one example. The problem is more complicated than "lol alphabatization."

[Shougun]

I know enough about the subject to know that a list of displayed names on screen should not be "difficult" to sort, period.

The entire game is poorly coded, both to accommodate the limitations of the PS3 and due to sloppy work on SE's part. All they do is make constant excuses about it.... sorting name... housing... etc.

Its like they put no forethought into anything.

I'm going to assume Tiggy programs better than I, but I'd just like to chime in and say that it is quite possible that they have the data managed in a way that is not easy to sort. Imo they should just auto sort the list that is pulled to your computer (such a small list, even if originally in a different data type wouldn't take long to pre-sort). At least then players don't have to request it to be sorted (save sorting preferences in some local area, like the UI - most players will be none the wiser from it).

[Roris]

If 3rd party programs help improve latency for a lot of people, you'd think they'd work to apply some of the same principles behind those 3rd party programs on their infrastructure, especially now that ARR is so profitable like they always keep implying, surely they can afford it.

[Tiggy]

I'm going to assume Tiggy programs better than I, but I'd just like to chime in and say that it is quite possible that they have the data managed in a way that is not easy to sort. Imo they should just auto sort the list that is pulled to your computer (such a small list, even if originally in a different data type wouldn't take long to pre-sort). At least then players don't have to request it to be sorted (save sorting preferences in some local area, like the UI - most players will be none the wiser from it).

Yeah there are absolutely possible solutions especially from the client side. As I recall they never said they couldn't do it. Just that it would be tough. Also the ps3 limitations on the UI could prohibit it entirely or be what makes it so tough. Sometimes they won't give a feature unless all the systems support it. So far only a few UI elements seem to be different between ps3 and pc. The phase out of the ps3 can't come soon enough.

[Fornix]

If 3rd party programs help improve latency for a lot of people, you'd think they'd work to apply some of the same principles behind those 3rd party programs on their infrastructure, especially now that ARR is so profitable like they always keep implying, surely they can afford it.

The third party programs do nothing on SE's infrastructure. The only thing it does is change the routes by which you connect to the server. It's like a TomTom navigation system with traffic congestion notifications.

You can have a congestion from city B to city C. So rather it'd direct you from A to X to Y to D.

[Charisma]

*waves hand*

I have 20-35 ping in FFXIV, I'm from europe

Maybe you should get yourself a better way, to find out your ping, because your way is broken.
Not even the best internet can get you such a good ping overseas.