MMORPGs moving to 1-10 MS server side polling

[Teirshin]

You have no idea how that data is organized what-so-ever. Alphabetizing isn't the problem. It's what format the data is in and is it even feasible to do that with the existing structure. It's easier to do on certain data types than others, and some data types are stored in memory differently such that it limits how you can change it (mutability) so that they can get speed increases elsewhere (ps3 limitations). If you don't understand why something like that might be difficult then it shows how little you know of the topic in general. It's not as simple as "lol L2alphabatize."

I know enough about the subject to know that a list of displayed names on screen should not be "difficult" to sort, period.

The entire game is poorly coded, both to accommodate the limitations of the PS3 and due to sloppy work on SE's part. All they do is make constant excuses about it.... sorting name... housing... etc.

Its like they put no forethought into anything.

[Tiggy]

I know enough about the subject to know that a list of displayed names on screen should not be "difficult" to sort, period.

The entire game is poorly coded, both to accommodate the limitations of the PS3 and due to sloppy work on SE's part. All they do is make constant excuses about it.... sorting name... housing... etc.

Its like they put no forethought into anything.

A list of names isn't difficult to sort no. Like I said you don't know anything about the data type or structure. You're talking about something you don't know. You're trivializing something you have no domain knowledge about because you're talking from a place of ignorance on the topic. If I had a dollar for everytime someone had a feature request and said "why don't you just" or "isn't it as simple as" then I wouldn't have to work anymore. IT's. More. Complicated. Than. You. Think.

Also, as a programmer myself I know you never have perfect foresight to make a perfectly flexible system that meets every future use case. It's not realistic in the real world. The magical scenario where it's perfectly ready for any future content is a fantasty.

Does anyone here, who posts about 1 ms update, have any experience in developing client-server application and really understand what does it mean, when server has several thousand connections, and each one updates 1000 times per second? What are the issues with this, for example? It's not just about lowering some constant in code, it's way more complicated.

People refuse to accept that truth. They're armchair dev's who think they actually know what they're talking about. I'm a programmer myself but all that does for me is give me the knowledge to know how ridiculous things can be and to know solutions aren't always so simple. People need to give the dev's a break. Especially when those people have no idea what they're criticizing.

[Teirshin]

A list of names isn't difficult to sort no. Like I said you don't know anything about the data type or structure. You're talking about something you don't know. You're trivializing something you have no domain knowledge about because you're talking from a place of ignorance. If I had a dollar for everytime someone had a feature request and said "why don't you just" or "isn't it as simple as" then I wouldn't have to work anymore. IT's. More. Complicated. Than. You. Think.

I think more than SE does apparently. Sorting is one of the easiest things to do with computer data, no matter the data format.

I call it lazy on their part, and yet one more lame excuse.

[Tiggy]

no matter the data format.

Flat out false. You are incorrect sir.

Some data sets are immutable because they save memory, Immutable objects CAN NOT BE CHANGED. If you have an array of names and that array is immutable then you can not sort it. Period. If the array of names is immutable, and it likely is, it would help conserve ps3 memory, derease concurrency, simplify race conditions, and a few more pros. It also creates a situation where the names would be unsortable.

This is both A) a scenario where the data type prevents it and B) a plausible scenario for why ffxiv can't do it.

This is just one example. The problem is more complicated than "lol alphabatization."

[thepalehunter]

I have to use a 3rd party app to help improve latency pretty much every time FFXIV is patched. But I hear you OP, sometimes this game feels like walking with tar on the bottom of your shoes.

[Shougun]

I know enough about the subject to know that a list of displayed names on screen should not be "difficult" to sort, period.

The entire game is poorly coded, both to accommodate the limitations of the PS3 and due to sloppy work on SE's part. All they do is make constant excuses about it.... sorting name... housing... etc.

Its like they put no forethought into anything.

I'm going to assume Tiggy programs better than I, but I'd just like to chime in and say that it is quite possible that they have the data managed in a way that is not easy to sort. Imo they should just auto sort the list that is pulled to your computer (such a small list, even if originally in a different data type wouldn't take long to pre-sort). At least then players don't have to request it to be sorted (save sorting preferences in some local area, like the UI - most players will be none the wiser from it).

[Tiggy]

I'm going to assume Tiggy programs better than I, but I'd just like to chime in and say that it is quite possible that they have the data managed in a way that is not easy to sort. Imo they should just auto sort the list that is pulled to your computer (such a small list, even if originally in a different data type wouldn't take long to pre-sort). At least then players don't have to request it to be sorted (save sorting preferences in some local area, like the UI - most players will be none the wiser from it).

Yeah there are absolutely possible solutions especially from the client side. As I recall they never said they couldn't do it. Just that it would be tough. Also the ps3 limitations on the UI could prohibit it entirely or be what makes it so tough. Sometimes they won't give a feature unless all the systems support it. So far only a few UI elements seem to be different between ps3 and pc. The phase out of the ps3 can't come soon enough.

[Meier]

I don't think they are ever going to listen to us. They haven't yet and its been -so- long. Everything they reply to on here is glamour stuff, fan festival, etc. Nothing game breaking or big. Zzzz.

[vp_cmc]

Does anyone here, who posts about 1 ms update, have any experience in developing client-server application and really understand what does it mean, when server has several thousand connections, and each one updates 1000 times per second? What are the issues with this, for example? It's not just about lowering some constant in code, it's way more complicated.

[Teirshin]

Does anyone here, who posts about 1 ms update, have any experience in developing client-server application and really understand what does it mean, when server has several thousand connections, and each one updates 1000 times per second? What are the issues with this, for example? It's not just about lowering some constant in code, it's way more complicated.

Its far more complex than most people realize. Sitting at the end of the whole thing where massive networks are designed, I've seen what our engineers go through some days to account for traffic and loads.

They however, can sort a list pretty easily.