MMORPGs moving to 1-10 MS server side polling

[Fyrebrand]

Guild Wars 2 works the exact same way. But yes, the games that require strict timing suffer the most.

First of all, GW2 is not remotely similar to FFXIV in this regard. In GW2, if I move out of a red AoE circle before an attack connects I will not take damage from it -- even when it's down to the last instant.

In FFXIV, the game has already decided whether or not I'll get hit by the attack before it even happens. I need to be out of the circle almost a second or so before it disappears, or my fate is sealed. There is even a brief moment of nothing, after the circle disappears but before the attack plays out, where I can move as far from the blast as I want but it makes no difference.

Second, "the games that require strict timing suffer the most" is not an excuse. As I said, GW2 does not give me any problems, nor did other action-oriented combat systems such as in Tera, Wildstar, or ESO. FFXIV is literally the only game that suffers this kind of latency when it comes to my character's precise location.
But besides that, FFXIV is not a game I would describe as requiring "strict timing." Even besides AoEs, it's not like you can dodge anything. If a monster is planning to swipe at you and you move out of melee range, the attack is still going to hit you.

What that gif isn't showing (and is the key in this game) is the enemy's casting bar. That aoe circle is almost a red herring. It'll tell you WHERE you're gonna get smacked upside the head, but not WHEN (the casting bar gives this). The aoe circle will stay until the attack itself. ><; I've seen lots of complaints about this, so I'll ask folks "were you out before the casting bar was complete?" Invariably, the response is, "Oh, I dunno." ><; Mind you, on ps3 (I've played on it), that latency is killer (literally). By the time you see the aoe mark, the casting bar is probably already complete. >: ( You have to be psychic to dodge shit.

Ah, thanks I will watch for the cast bar and see if that acts as a more reliable indicator. But assuming it actually gives accurate timing information, this raises two questions:
1) Why is the game able to display a cast bar with accurate timing, but it can't do the equivalent with AoE circles?
2) If the cast bar is full, shouldn't the spell/attack be happening already? Why is there such a large gap of time between when the cast bar fills, when the AoE circles disappear, and when the actual attack animation/damage occurs?

This gif was demonstrating how your personal lag affected the game greatly

If it's just my own internet lag, then it seems odd that other games would not be affected by such things. Somehow, other MMO developers have managed to create action-oriented combat systems that require precise timing, and still play smoothly despite my "personal lag." I wonder what these other companies are doing differently, and why Square Enix can't do the same..?

you may also want to post the gifs of people who can run back into the AoE circle and not get hit.

Oh yeah, I get that as well. I can run out of the circle, wait for it to disappear, then run back in and be inside an explosion that doesn't even damage me.

It's still a 100% ignorant representation of how most telegraphed skills worked in this game by the fact that it only shows the telegraph and not the cast bar. The majority of skills determine target not when the circle disappears but when the cast bar finishes. People have largely figured this out by now while morons continue to whine about red circles and still can't figure out how they are supposed to read them.

I can't move out of AoEs until I know where they are. Regardless of when Titan's cast bar starts or ends, I can't begin to react to a Landslide until the game shows me visually where it is going to occur. If that visual graphic is in no way a representation of the attack's timing, then why doesn't Square Enix adjust it to make it more accurate? Why did they put such a significant gap of time between when the cast bar fills, and when the attack happens? There's no reason I should be able to run out of the way before an explosion blows, and still get hit by it even if I'm not there anymore, just because some "cast bar" determined where I was 2 seconds ago. Not to mention, why do we also have people here who claim not to suffer any latency, and can use the AoE graphics reliably?

If the cast bar is such an important factor in dodging and we can't trust the AoE circles, then Square Enix should come out and say so, and integrate a tutorial about it in-game. The circles are horribly misleading and not helpful at all.

[Tiggy]

If it's just my own internet lag, then it seems odd that other games would not be affected by such things.

First off yes other games are suffering through this internet issue. Google "Level3 Lag WoW" or other games to see.

Secondly, no it's not at all odd other games for you won't be effected. The game communication must first leave your house and travel to the server which is physically located somewhere in the world. The server for another game could and very likely is located in a physically different location than XIV's meaning your connection takes a completely different highway to get to that server. So it's possible the route between you and FFXIV is congested but between you and for example WoW isn't. Giving you the false impression this is a XIV only problem.

Like I said I keep watch on every hop between my end and SE's end.

Based on the preponderance of logs proving this over the last several months to a year showing this is an internet problem I have decided I don't believe you. I question whether you even do it as you say or if it's even done well. Until you produce logs with sufficient data during a prime time window I won't believe it.

It's easy to say you do something despite the fact you don't. You're expecting me to take you at your word but I've seen numerous tracerts showing the problem is online. That's proof I can get behind. In a forum where people blame first and point fingers before trying to understand I find it prudent to stick to provable facts.

[Fornix]

If it's just my own internet lag, then it seems odd that other games would not be affected by such things. Somehow, other MMO developers have managed to create action-oriented combat systems that require precise timing, and still play smoothly despite my "personal lag." I wonder what these other companies are doing differently, and why Square Enix can't do the same..?

Other companies aren't doing anything differently. In every single MMO on the market you have people on the forums complaining about lag. Simply because you don't experience any lag there, doesn't mean the same problems aren't present there. Just like as to how I never lag with FFXIV. The difference is though that your routing towards those servers will be different.

That's why programs like WTFast work, because they bypass problematic routes. Minimize hops where possible.

[Tiggy]

A) Polling rate is 100ms not 300ms. Do people really not remember that update?

B) That gif is outdated largely due to the change to 100ms from 300ms, and overall server improvements. If that's still your experience then there is something else wrong. I haven't seen anything that bad outside of a packet loss event and that's a web issue that the stats from WTFast prove. It's simply not relevant anymore. Bringing it up now only really serves to show how much things have improved a year later.

[SarcasmMisser]

A) Polling rate is 100ms not 300ms. Do people really not remember that update?

But people are still getting hit so clearly it's SE's fault and all improvements should be forgotten instead of acknowledging that some people are just terrible at dodging.

[JayCommon]

I can doge every AOE telegraf eva with 1000% accuracy bcuz I'm 1337 and ur net suxors. Git gud bro.







Sorry,

This thread didn't have one of these posts yet, and it just felt so empty without it

[Bixby]

Ah, thanks I will watch for the cast bar and see if that acts as a more reliable indicator. But assuming it actually gives accurate timing information, this raises two questions:
1) Why is the game able to display a cast bar with accurate timing, but it can't do the equivalent with AoE circles?
2) If the cast bar is full, shouldn't the spell/attack be happening already? Why is there such a large gap of time between when the cast bar fills, when the AoE circles disappear, and when the actual attack animation/damage occurs?

1. Cast bars are a very simple UI display, shown over everything else as part of the HUD. AOE circles are calculated as part of the 3D environment, taking into account terrain and models. With my connection and my settings, I can dodge very reliably based on the markers. If I turn my graphical settings up a good deal, that's no longer the case, and I have to rely on cast bars. It's not all there is to the situation, but part of the problem with AOE markers can be display lag.
2. I suspect the cast bar is filled entirely by the client. The server sends a signal of "X attack has started, it takes Y seconds to cast" and the client just displays that. Even if the server is sending live updates of the cast bar (which I doubt, given the speed and consistency of cast bars), other parts of the equation (attack animation and damage landing) require additional signals from the server, which then also need to be processed ("X attack was not interrupted, display its fancy graphic" and "X attack did not miss, display the animation for it hitting, plus this knockback, and take off this much HP, for all these players").

[Shougun]

Saw a couple arguments that the delay only needs to be to human delay, while certainly we cant respond in 10ms the delay in humans should not necessarily be the same for the server (~200-300ms). All that would do is compound some of the problems, I see something that is delayed from reality and I made a delayed response. Recipe for loldrg. Smaller server delay helps regardless of human delay, since it means humans will be naturally delayed to reality rather than what isn't even the truth anymore.

Real life server patch got it right by making the delay only 299,792,458 m/s.

[Edli]

And replies are what you would expect, blaming only on people's own internet. Meanwhile other companies try to perfect their game's infrastructure while we do pointless technical talk.

[Tiggy]

And replies are what you would expect, blaming only on people's own internet. Meanwhile other companies try to perfect their game's infrastructure while we do pointless technical talk.

because it's the cause of the vast majority of the problems that people have. Are the servers perfect? No, but you're kidding yourself if you think other games have been immune to this problem as well.

You seem to keep forgetting that there exist hundreds of tracerts from players proving it's the internet. This isn't hearsay. This isn't us on a bandwagon. This is provable, demonstrable fact. No amount of shaming people for pointing it out will ever change it or get rid off all that packet loss.