[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Kurokikaze]

What I wanted was that you have the Gladiator up till rank 30 or whatever from which point onwards you can unlock Paladin (tank spec) or continue on the Gladiator further (DD spec). It's a challenge for the devs to make it so the current classes can compete against these old classes for sure, yah... but damn, I don't think the lore for them is that bad. They just need to refine them, make the lore more obvious and it should work.

That can be done but at that point I feel like you're adding new classes (FF ones) for the sake of adding them. Just give the current ones a more obvious role in groups/encounters.

[Kurokikaze]

There is no problem at all at having multiple upgrades per basic class. It's one of the strength of this system.

The only issue I have is that following the holy path also improves your dark skills, for example.
Or forget the name of the classes. Imagine that your GLA hits 40. You learn simultaneously a technique that cuts damage in half and another that doubles your damage output. I would like maybe a little more consistency in the path I decide to follow instead of just having more abilities to choose from once I have access to my specialization.

The way that I had envisioned that would NOT happen the way you explained. Your GLA from ranking up would not gain anything that resembles something that is PLD or DRK.

In my example:

- GLA hits 40 (learns something generic like Heavy Stab) <- an example
- You put points you earned from hitting 40 into whatever spec you are. Say you're DRK. "Oh sweet I have enough points for Souleater"

^ something like that.

@ Dreamer

I've no idea what you're trying to say with your comment nor does it fall in with what we're currently discussing. Care to elaborate?

[Betelgeuzah]

That can be done but at that point I feel like you're adding new classes (FF ones) for the sake of adding them. Just give the current ones a more obvious role in groups/encounters.

Honestly, you just described my thoughts about the whole deal.

I guess it could give kinda a detached and an out-of-place feeling about the whole thing. That's true.

But honessttllyyy, It's not like this "special task" to get access to the other spec would have to be anything massive. I think SE would like it too, as it gives us more goals to aim for (and more time for them to add content n shits). Time to go back to the drawing board to figure out what it could be!

It could be a set of trial quests/dungeons to "prove your worth" or whatever. Like getting a new class for half the effort. It doesn't have to be class specific either, but maybe all three city states would have their own so that you wouldn't have to repeat the same one until you level a 4th class.

[Kurokikaze]

Omg, we've come to an agreement. I feel like I've won some internets today.

[Betelgeuzah]

I did feel that if there is a best solution, we would figure it out today.

[Jericho]

Sounds like this could be a win. So here's another suggestion to think about. Force specialization after R50. Add weapon choices to base classes. For example:

Gladiator (Sword/shield, Great sword) -> Dark Knight (Great Sword), Paladin (Sword, shield)
Pugilist ((change name?)) (H2H, Dagger) -> Monk (Hand to Hand), Thief (Dagger)
Archer (Gun, Bow) -> Ranger (Bow), Corsair (Gun)

And so on. Limit specializations to 2 per base class. This way, when expansions come out, and new jobs, they add new base classes with 2 more specializations. After 3 expansions, we're up to 20 or more advanced classes. We don't want TOO many, so limiting to 2 per would be good. Maybe 3. But, for example:

Expansion one:
Tamer (Club, Gemmed-wand or something) -> Beastmaster (Club), Summoner (Wnad or something)

Expansion two:
Ronin (Great Katana, Katana) -> Ninja (Katana), Samurai (Great Katana)

Just more to think about. I have no beef with your proposal, and like I've said, I haven't read ALL the discussion, but if you like this, want to adjust it, whatever... It's yours. Free of charge. I love that you're putting together a huge summary of player supported job/class adjustments. Keep going!

[Kurokikaze]

Hmm actually what you're suggesting would work as a fix to the problem. If the extra weapon type is part of the Base Class there won't be an issue when swapping.. Why I didn't think of that before is beyond me. We just have to make it so that the extra weapon types are a trait that is specific to anything branching out from the base. Not sure 50 is the right level for that though.. should be earlier. Just a thought.

Obviously we give bonuses to players for using Great Sword (on DRK) and sword/shield (on PLD) to kinda curb their choice into something that makes sense.

I agree that 2 is a good number for specs. If they add 3 per base we'll be out of FF classes before we know it. I also agree that reserving something as diverse as katana is better left for an entirely new Base. lol

^ adding to OP#3. Lemme know if something should be changed from there.

[pilot]

Why not let the PGL be a BLM for the magic attack bonus for siesmic shock? Use the equivalent of artifact armor to lock out classes. Optimized builds become self evident enough. Yes, your BLM wants nukes native to the weapon. Yes, your PLD probably wants a freakin shield. People are going to recognize what works best despite everything and run with it. *points at FFXI NIN/DRK* Let it happen!

[Kurokikaze]

Just because you're free to do that doesn't make it good. Yes lets load up on MAB to slightly raise 1 attack for our PUG. That sounds phenomenal (obvious sarcasm).

This is a different game, sure we can take what worked in XI but we don't have to take everything. There are combinations that can be made that will feel unique with a board or a tree. It all depends on what new abilities/traits they come up with.

WoW has (had) something called "Shock-adin" that came from people loading up certain talents/abilities to raise their AoE power on Paladin. Players would use this to effectively AoE grind.

It wasn't something the developers had in mind but something that was created by the users. Saying that that cannot happen here or I'm not letting it happen is asinine.

[pilot]

I agree just because you can doesnt mean you should. I would still personally prefer a more free system with the dumb builds available and a very very careful attempt at balancing cross class actions to prevent "shock-adins", those sound terrible. Locking out classes with your tree doesnt shockadin-proof anything either.