[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Seikninkuru]

It's not just about class names. Those are just flavor to add the 'FF feel' and potentially draw back in players that quit the game over a frustration of it being a generic MMO as opposed to FF.

The true draw of the 'advanced classes' is to specialize roles. So you can specialize in being a tank, a controller, a healer, a magic nuker, a ranged DD, a melee DD, a buffer... etc.

That is why we need to define playstyle. The class names are just a way to do it, and one that I think just about every FFXIV player present or future would be behind. Not to mention the history and lore behind something as simple as the name 'Red Mage' or 'Dragoon'.

If I need to explain without using past FF games, then the FF MMO could just as well be called Eorzean Adventures. Love it or hate it, the FF name brings in players who want to experience the FF mythos online.

Most chose (and will choose) the game to play a Final Fantasy, not to play a random MMO offering.

You are essentially saying people feel they do not have a role if they so choose to designate themselves to do something unconvential correct?


What I'm saying is you are playing with people who won't play with a person who specifies in debuffs, because its not as good as a 3rd guy who can spam cure?

If that is true, then isn't the problem the abilities and not the system?

Thanks!

-have Fun

[Shazaam]

You are essentially saying people feel they do not have a role if they so choose to designate themselves to do something unconvential correct?

Umm... How I mine for fish?

Thanks!

-have Fun

[Seikninkuru]

Umm... How I mine for fish?

Thanks!

-have Fun

Are you confused by what i say? My question is:

Are you saying people are confused because they can use abilities to define who they are rather than a class they pick at start select?


Futhermore, if you feel so, you would want them to pick that class after X levels rather than at start?

What do you want? Character indivudality or classes you level.

I'll be more simple.

Pick a class, level it, be the class you choose to level at 30 25, 10, or 1.

or

choose your class as you grow as a character.


Thanks!

- Have fun

[Shazaam]

Are you confused by what i say?

Very much so. These are the English forums right?

[Seikninkuru]

Very much so. These are the English forums right?

They are, and I'm sorry if I confuse you. Could you expand upon what is confusing you so i would better explain?

Thanks!

-have fun

[Shazaam]

They are, and I'm sorry if I confuse you. Could you expand upon what is confusing you so i would better explain?

Thanks!

-have fun

It's the syntax and grammar. It is almost like you are following an idea with the supposition that I know what is going on inside your head.

Like a mathematical equation, please show your work. I really have no clue as to what you are trying to say in the last few posts. Re-read them as if you were reading them for the first time, and clarify please.

Edit:

Read the OP, and type something legible next time. I'm going to do something more productive.

[Seikninkuru]

It's the syntax and grammar. It is almost like you are following an idea with the supposition that I know what is going on inside your head.

Like a mathematical equation, please show your work. I really have no clue as to what you are trying to say in the last few posts. Re-read them as if you were reading them for the first time, and clarify please.

Well maybe I'm so stupid, sorry we can't get along, would you care to refute a point or masturbate talking about grammar? confused what your problem is.


Thanks!


-Have fun!

I'll be super simpel for you, I question why you need defined classes and are incapable of fulfilled the needed roles of society on your own, only by the the class chosen at start up, if that doesn't mate sense I'll be flat out.

Are you so incapable of personal choice that you cannot feel like an individual without being a specific class? Can you not fulfill a role if you are not forced to? What forces you to be a white mage other than nostalgia? Why, if I choose to be a healer can I not be one now? Becaause i can... Just want to know thanks, jealous you don't get preferrential spots in a team or something?

Thanks!

-Have Fun

[northernsky]

From this post:



There is no problem in comparison, but what was said was that this 'Specialization' idea was mashing WoW on top of FFXIV, and that isn't the case. Hence why he asked the poster to leave.

Probably a bit abrupt and even rude, but given how much Kuro has responded to the exact same remark from previous posters and his involvement with the debate on this thread, it is hard to fault him for snapping a bit at a post that seemingly ignored 45+ pages of previous posts.

Comparison is fine, but trying to boil down any of these suggestions into : "that's just wow" is a little trite in itself, and not really a participation in discussion or feedback.

The OP itself shows that talent trees are just being used as a 'placeholder' for whatever GUI would be implemented.

Personally, I don't want to see a WoW talent tree pop up in my FFXIV... I would quit the game right there. But if they took the exact same progression, bonuses, and abilities, and popped into a GUI that looked like a Sphere Grid, I would be hooked.

That was a point made in the OP. That the GUI is up for debate, but seeing as the many players are familiar with the 'talent tree' in MMOs it makes a better placeholder for whatever original GUI SE chooses to use.

The second point being, that within this system you can STILL level all classes, and switch between them whenever you like. You are only restricted to whatever Advanced class you choose at the time, and this class can be switched in town or via quest at your choosing. It is clearly stated in the OP.

The OP system is nothing like WoW, you don't make alts, you continue your adventures on one character, growing with each experience and class change. If anything it is more like FFXI's system than the one we currently have in FFXIV.

TLDR: Kuro had pretty good reason for saying that this post ignored the OP and the past 45 pages, even if he was a bit rude about it. The poster either needs to read the OP and respond with insight, or suffer being potentially ignored by the rest of the debate.

I hear you. My point was more about "to the others posts, this does not belong in my thread", the others' posts being comparisons with other suggestions (and the notion of owning a thread is silly in istself...)

Anyway I know I started it but no point in further arguing about this. I like the OP's proposition a lot, like some others' propositions too. And I find that most of times they are not exclusive, i-e they can be meshed together. So comparing several ideas one with the other is a good thing, if it's done right of course.

[Kurokikaze]

Well maybe I'm so stupid, sorry we can't get along, would you care to refute a point or masturbate talking about grammar? confused what your problem is.


Thanks!


-Have fun!

I'll be super simpel for you, I question why you need defined classes and are incapable of fulfilled the needed roles of society on your own, only by the the class chosen at start up, if that doesn't mate sense I'll be flat out.

Are you so incapable of personal choice that you cannot feel like an individual without being a specific class? Can you not fulfill a role if you are not forced to? What forces you to be a white mage other than nostalgia? Why, if I choose to be a healer can I not be one now? Becaause i can... Just want to know thanks, jealous you don't get preferrential spots in a team or something?

Thanks!

-Have Fun

We've established that lack of set roles and class definition IS the problem with our current classes (in OP those are major - FF names are minor issues). Sure you can find a few CONs or THMs to heal but lemme know if you find one that doesn't get pigeonholed into it and gets to nuke. Not a single one. Thats a problem with 1. the class, 2. the abilities. If that CON were able to specialize into a stronger nuke oriented CON (which I'm calling a BLM for FF's sake and because they PLAN to introduce it regardless) they would be able to use their nukes because they are stronger than they are now and they have a clearly defined role. CONs that nuke are damage dealers - theres no way to spin that and no one will make them heal when they don't want to. Most of my friends that quit played BLM in XI and planned to do something similar here but they ran into this giant problem.

The above happens with many classes. No one knows what they're doing except casters that are healers by default and theres no way around that.

I don't see whats so hard to understand about that.

@northernsky It wasn't really to that comparison post but Cairdaes shameless plugging of an idea he supports. I don't jump in his thread and route viewers this way, I would appreciate it if he doesn't do it here. I thought we agreed to disagree.

Also I snapped a bit I suppose, because I made things VERY clear in the OP and yet I've sat through 45+ pages of questions/comments that could've been avoided by understanding what was in the OP.

Read it, understand it, then comment, make suggestions, or ask questions.. otherwise you are being detrimental to the process.

[northernsky]

Ok so after rereading the initial posts, edits, and several pages, I have a suggestion/concern. With this system, a player could master all the abilities/skills/traits from a job without even playing it for a minute? For example, a current rank 50 gladiator would have access to all the DRK skills after completing their respective quest?

Forgive me if it has been brought up before, but I would suggest that you need to play a specific role/job (say DRK) to earn points in this particular job. I'm all for allocation of points through a path and reallocation of points within that path, but I think 2 different jobs should have completely independent paths. I think I would prefer earning DRK points separately from PLD points and not be able to interchange the said points.

As the OP said one of the main reason I have liked XI so much is that you can do everything with a single char. Personally, character progression is my biggest incentive to play the game, so I would like to feel like every ability that I use and that defines my playstyle have been earned and mastered.

This is an example of how I could see two propositions mesh together, i-e the title system that is on top of your class and the talent-tree mechanic that defines of how you progress in that said title/job.