[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Siatdiat]

AH, my bad. I remember reading that many times actually reading through every single page of the thread, but was trying to focus on the big things people seemed to be mixing up or having trouble understanding and it slipped my mind.

I hate the way the game works currently and even feeling as if I was performing a tedious chore, I made it to 15 on 2 classes very easily. I can see the point here but ultimately I think they shouldn't focus on either making the transition as early or late as possible for the purpose of it being very early or late. Rather, the focus should be on filling in the gaps in content and making it as balanced as possible.

To any devs reading, I'd like to move that anyone who further mentions the terrible idea of grinding out several jobs FFT style in order to level another job, be banned from the forums. Especially if they mentioned mimes...

INB4 someone takes that too seriously and whines about it. Grow a sense of humor.

[Seikninkuru]

If you [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] realized that I have acknowledged that and responded with this question:


You will see what I mean. Go ahead. I'm waiting for that answer given your brief explanation.

Your tree system isn't what I have issue with it's the fact you cannot wrap your head around the weapons not being classes but merely the medium that you gain abilities through.

Why does a paladin have to be a class and not just a role I fulfill due to the coices in abilities and stats I make.

Instead of character uniqueness(which vanishes with the introduction of classes rather than barebones vehicles).

I understand your system, I disagree with it emphatically because I prefer to design a character and not level a class. Currently the game allows me to do that. I do not see in your system how it allows me to do that.

It's simply a job/sub job/advanced job system with talent trees(which isn't a BAD thing per se' just something I do not enjoy).

Sorry - to clarify further. Why should I have to unlock another job and then level that to gain specialization when i can just do that as is by mixing the skills giving to me(let's refer to classes as skills).

To clarify further - Why does there have to be some <insert class> here to get x ability anyway? Why not just have you do missions for an organization who wishes to train you in perhaps an extra ability or two(using leves and guildmarks)?

I know I seem hostile, I will try to be a bit more calm in the future.


I should be burned for how many times I've edited this post to add on to it.

If you removed the class names and levels, and just had it so after a certain amount of SP you gaine dyou unlocked abilities would that not be the same?> It should, that's how I view the system.

I know there are problems with the current abilities granted(many of them suck, some are just too good). I see the classes as skills. If you played ultima online take Gladiator as the sword skill. Eventually they added a few abilities to the skill, but originally you got nothing. Just because you had a sword didn't mean you were a tank, just a person who uses a sword. You could then mix this with parrying(which would be sentinel in ff14) to create a shield using 'tank'.

I want to preserve that feeling. The ability to create what I want. There are problems, so anyone willing to offer suggestions shouldnt be lambasted by someone like myself, but I disagree with it being as rigid as you suggest.

The way it is set up it seems to mimic the UO system with just more abilities granted over your skill level(100% in UO, and lvl 50 in FF14). I feel the current system offers more.

[Cairdeas]

AH, my bad. I remember reading that many times actually reading through every single page of the thread, but was trying to focus on the big things people seemed to be mixing up or having trouble understanding and it slipped my mind.

I hate the way the game works currently and even feeling as if I was performing a tedious chore, I made it to 15 on 2 classes very easily. I can see the point here but ultimately I think they shouldn't focus on either making the transition as early or late as possible for the purpose of it being very early or late. Rather, the focus should be on filling in the gaps in content and making it as balanced as possible.

To any devs reading, I'd like to move that anyone who further mentions the terrible idea of grinding out several jobs FFT style in order to level another job, be banned from the forums. Especially if they mentioned mimes...

INB4 someone takes that too seriously and whines about it. Grow a sense of humor.

The best Idea I've seen/heard for mimes was to Introduce them as a Magic class and give them the ability to introduce blue magic to the game. With each blue magic spell they learn being usable only by the Mimic and one other weapon class. IE Breakout can only be used by Mimic and Pugilist.

[Siatdiat]

Your tree system isn't what I have issue with it's the fact you cannot wrap your head around the weapons not being classes but merely the medium that you gain abilities through.

Why does a paladin have to be a class and not just a role I fulfill due to the coices in abilities and stats I make.

Ironically you can't wrap your head around Paladin or Dark Knight not being classes but instead a gladiator focusing on a role. Dark Knights and Gladiators will be able to use all abilities of lower levels under this system, which allows for a large amount of customization still, they just won't be able to use rank 50 Lancer abilities. Limitless customization is a bad, bad thing.

Instead of character uniqueness(which vanishes with the introduction of classes rather than barebones vehicles).

I have already explained this, in my previous post and now here.

I understand your system, I disagree with it emphatically because I prefer to design a character and not level a class. Currently the game allows me to do that. I do not see in your system how it allows me to do that.

Currently you can level all classes/jobs to 50 and then use all abilities from one class on another. The restrictions for doing so are very minor. If you are too mentally slow or too purposefully blind to understand why this is bad, I can't help you. I do however know the developers are not likely to entertain keeping a broken system that has been complained about loudly in forums, and pointed out by a majority of players in a poll.

It's simply a job/sub job/advanced job system with talent trees(which isn't a BAD thing per se' just something I do not enjoy).

Actually it isn't anymore or less of this proposed here than what it is currently. The only difference is that right now there is very little limit to what you can sub, as you can literally sub any skill you have learned on any job with little restriction or weakness in ability. In fact, as I have mentioned, a player can play a melee class, and then use all of another melee classes abilities with little restriction. This gives the classes no real identity at all.

Sorry - to clarify further. Why should I have to unlock another job and then level that to gain specialization when i can just do that as is by mixing the skills giving to me(let's refer to classes as skills).

I have answered this already once again. Can I geta little background on what you intend to do with the current system when you have leveled all classes to 50? I have no groundwork on where to start to critique this because although I am prepared to do so, it is hard to just randomly pick one concept of why this is so important to you just for you to let me know I'm barking up the wrong tree. SO, little kitten. Let me know what tree you reside in.

To clarify further - Why does there have to be some <insert class> here to get x ability anyway? Why not just have you do missions for an organization who wishes to train you in perhaps an extra ability or two(using leves and guildmarks)?

I find it quite humorous that you have proven to me that the current system isn't completely free and open ended, by suggesting a far worse and even more ridiculous concept for character advancement. Seemingly, people all have ADD now and can't make even the slightest commitment to a choice anymore.

I know I seem hostile, I will try to be a bit more calm in the future.

I probably seem hostile, guess I haven't dealt with enough terrible posters yet here to build up any tolerance.

[Siatdiat]

The best Idea I've seen/heard for mimes was to Introduce them as a Magic class and give them the ability to introduce blue magic to the game. With each blue magic spell they learn being usable only by the Mimic and one other weapon class. IE Breakout can only be used by Mimic and Pugilist.

/facepalm....

[sharky]

If you implement old class names/ old classes, then you will be locked into developing skills/abilities that ppl will expect them to have.

If you are trying to create a new game experience, creating new classes allows you more flexibility to create new abilities and mechanics in the way that is best suited to adapt to the new world.

[Luneyune]

I fully support this system I hope they make something similar to it

[Judge_Xero]

Considerations for people already at R50 for 1 or more classes... You get to have access to a more defined role for whatever Advanced Class you decide to play. You will already have access to more cross class skills. (pending they re-arrange them to better suite other classes) ....more later

[JudgeN]

I'm worried that by using traditional FF names instead of what we have now, we running into the "Playing the same game" syndrome. I already played FFXI for years so why would I want to play the same jobs as that game in this game? The roles/classes need to be different in some way to show that this is a different game IMO. I like the system but I'm worried will all end up playing the same jobs with very similar abilities to FFXI, thus really turning this game into FFXI HD.

[OmegaNovaios]

No. What I noticed is that people like abusing a completely broken system. The fact that theres so much freedom is why we're discussing this in the first place. Besides I'm not taking away all their freedom - just the parts being exploited now.

Don't confuse freedom as being better than being given a few logical choices. Freedom is an illusion.

In FFXI you were free to choose whatever subjob you want. Now if SE told you that you could only use certain subjobs for each class:

Ranger could only sub Warrior, Samurai, and Ninja. Would that have hampered that job's ability to perform? Not in the slightest. Why? Because those were the only subjobs that were being used by that job, period. If a Ranger came to your merit party, HNM party with a Black Mage sub what would you say? Wheres your freedom of play now?

Yes, thats what I thought.

If you can honestly come up with a well thought out counter argument to this I'd LOVE to hear it.

Anyways, theres some food for thought. Back to BG for me.

I really don't like this post. Many things are possible and work outside tradition and player base fixation and ideas of what a player should be. It's true that players think this way to cancel out your freedom, but things do work outside this phase and I'll give you some examples that are based upon but are effective and that probably 99% of players never thought of.

RDM/WAR as tank. This job combination requires a lot of player skill to perform effectively but I have personally done this in leveling parties. Equivalent damage taken to PLD/WAR previous to endgame gear and x2 MP pool for self curing along with bar(spell) makign it extremely effective against mob TP attacks that are elemental based and phalanx is extremely effective against very fast/weak hitting mobs. Postponed to endgame gear RDM tank is practical on magic damage dealing mobs.

RDM/NIN endgame tank is also viable. You can search this on Youtube for videos.

Tank class/BLU for super tanking. Combined with a THF or any class using SATA for boosted hate on the tank this is extremely effective for reducing damage taken beyond that of /WAR.

RDM/SCH for nuking. Combined with fast cast, convert, refresh, and B+ in nuking (/SCH allows this) makes RDM viable for DPS in this form. This setup is a viable replacement for both /blm and /whm. The only only advantage to either is elemental seal and erase at 75/37 (not including since Warp or Teleport since these aren't combat skills).

BLU/WAR for tank. In my opinion this the best possible setup for leveling as well as EG tanking especially with a genbu shield since you can stack cocoon and defender.

Now personally in FFXI I revolved around tanking/solo possibilities, but you think outside the box with a certain depth I'm sure this can be applied to other roles as well.

Not sure how well these would work out but some other ideas are:

1. BRD/COR or COR/BRD that doesn't pull. Maybe not the best for meripo but I'm sure this is effective everywhere else since it gives the job an extra buff.
2. BLU/THF for SATA enhanced damage. I have seen this before but BLU/NIN is very dominate compared to this which IMO dual wield can't compare to SATA and assuming you have a very good tank (which you should) then utsusemi is useless in parties.
3. Probably any DPS/THF for SATA + WS really.
4. DNC/NIN or NIN/DNC as tank is very effective assuming the player is skilled enough to build hate with these setups.

And I'm sure there are more setups I'm just not extremely familiar with DPS jobs.