[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Kurokikaze]

I'm saying what if you just had specialization points to spend based on the current level of your selected job that could be spent in any other classes specialization tree. You would have to spend the minimum amount of points in your current class first before you could branch out (say 15-20 points if we're saying specialization starts at lvl 20), and then you could spend points in other trees to get unique stats and skills from the other classes, but only up to a maximum to prevent stealing of too many skills.



Yeah, maybe not AM, that was too ambitious, but a decent nuke spell. One that wouldn't be available to players from the base classes.

As I said before, in what I've laid out it wouldn't work but they could do it. I personally don't like the idea of letting players jump to a completely different advanced class and picking skills altogether. They should be confined to their own trees/spheres/grids.

I'm of the opinion that the base classes have generic abilities that can be cross-classed while advanced class skills/traits are specific to that class and the others tied to which it branched off from.

[Sorel]

Taking high level abilities/traits from other classes as was stated in the OP. This is in an effort to make classes unique. The mix-matching going on right now is running rampant in the worst possible way.

I see. Thank you, sir. I have some more questions so that I can make comparisons to character capabilities in FFXI. Please understand I'm trying to gauge whether or not what is being proposed is a step forward or backward from the previous Square-Enix MMORPG.

In FFXI (before the any level-cap removal), a character that /WHM could cast Raise, as long as they had enough MP. BLM/WHM, RDM/WHM, heck even MNK/WHM could cast Raise.

It seems that in the proposed system, only a character with the White Mage Job Tree can cast Raise (or Resurrect). And that the only Armory Class with access to the White Mage Job Tree will be Conjurer.

Is that a fair comparison, or have I misunderstood how the proposed system will work?

[Kurokikaze]

Thats correct. They could make abilities for other classes that serves the same purpose but Raise would be in that tree (it could be lower tiered so that RDM and BLMs can get it but no one outside of CON).

[Allistar]

Hello all, this is my first post, even though I have been reading and following pretty much almost everything everyone suggests about the changes they would love to see in XIV, I think this post has a lot of potential...now I have not read everyones comments or replies to the OP, and if someone has already commented on what I am about to say, I apologize in advance. I love the idea of advanced classes, but how about if the so called base classes were used to unlock the advanced classes, but still had some relevance in the game, I mean if the original classes unlocked and advanced to another class to specialize then you're left with the original classes gathering dust...and honestly these new classes are really fun to play, and I and maybe even more people would love to take them to what ever max level/rank SE has in store for us.

[Allistar]

Oh and by the way OP, your post is a pretty amazing read.

[Kurokikaze]

Hello all, this is my first post, even though I have been reading and following pretty much almost everything everyone suggests about the changes they would love to see in XIV, I think this post has a lot of potential...now I have not read everyones comments or replies to the OP, and if someone has already commented on what I am about to say, I apologize in advance. I love the idea of advanced classes, but how about if the so called base classes were used to unlock the advanced classes, but still had some relevance in the game, I mean if the original classes unlocked and advanced to another class to specialize then you're left with the original classes gathering dust...and honestly these new classes are really fun to play, and I and maybe even more people would love to take them to what ever max level/rank SE has in store for us.

That would be more classes to be balanced in the end and extra work considering they are.

Also I'm going on this:

Yoshida-san is between two possible plans at this time. The first idea is that the traditional names would be introduced as “higher” or “advanced” classes. The traditional classes would thus be something of a goal for players. The second idea is that the traditional names would be more of a subset or specialization within the existing classes.

Neither of those choices leaves room for the current classes to be fully functioning classes along with the FF ones. So I made them transition into the advanced class (specializations).

[Sorel]

One last question.

There are over 40 traditional Final Fantasy jobs. I don't expect any system to be able to handle them all. But how expandable will the proposed system be after the initial half dozen to dozen Job Trees are introduced? Would all the existing Job Trees need to be rebalanced and/or reassigned, if SE wanted to introduce a Musketeer or Bard Armory Class? What if SE wanted to make a Soldier or Blue Mage Job Tree available? Would additional Classes and Job Trees be easy to add?

I know, that was about 3 questions. I apologize in advance for my probing.

[Kurokikaze]

Adding new classes and trees would be easy and they wouldn't need to re-balance the older classes unless they were adding an extra spec to the an existing tree. They would need to make sure that everything falls in inline with whats there if thats the case.

I could see them adding classes in either patches or expansions (the latter would require more to make it worth it of course). A patch would introduce 1 base class with 2-3 different Advanced Class paths that branch of it.

[Sorel]

Thank you, Kurokikaze for answering all my questions. I have to admit that I do prefer an advanced job system more akin to Final Fantasy Tactics versus the system that is being proposed here.

The proposed system is comprehensive, but relatively complex due to the point sub-system, the Job Tree restrictions, and the necessary overhaul of a majority of the Armory Class abilities to the Job Trees. Some character progress would be effectively wiped by the change over. The proposed system is also more restrictive than the job/subjob system from FFXI. Some might consider that a step backwards, rather than evolution forward.

I also disagree with your interpretation of Naoki Yoshida's interview. Yoshida-san never stated that he was scrapping, eliminating, or depreciating the existing Armory Classes. The proposed system assumes and seems to count on the certainty that a Rank 50 Gladiator will always be less effective in all areas of gameplay than a Level 50 Paladin or Dark Knight. The proposed system can be engineered to enforce that, but should it be??

The proposed system will require considerably more development in the form of the necessary tree and point sub-systems, and will undo a good amount of what is already developed in the Armory System.

All that being said, IF Yoshida-san and his team decide to go the more restrictive Job Tree Specialization route, instead of a more creativity-fostering Advanced/Prestige Job route ... the system proposed here would be how I would want them to proceed. It is well thought out and comprehensive. Though I may oppose it in principle and philosophically for the reasons I stated above, I cannot dispute that it is a viable alternative worthy of serious and respectful consideration.

I thank you and your team for putting it forward, and patiently explaining it.

[Dyvid]

Honestly I don't like the idea of having one class tied to another. I would rather all classes be tied to different weapons. If I want to be a Dark Knight then I equip great sword, a katana for Ninja.

I know this is shameless promotion but I made a thread trying to approach this discussion from a different angle, http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-System-debate

My hope is to add to the current while keeping it Final Fantasy based. I know alot of people loved using grids and tables for customizing characters and wanted to keep it in tune to that.