[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Sorel]

Let's see if I get it. Again, I am obtuse at times. Please take no offense at my ignorance.

So Gladiator (Sword User) can at a certain Swordsmanship rank (say Rank 25) have the option to complete a quest that makes a specific job tree available. Paladin, Dark Knight, Samurai, Soldier, and/or Thief comes to mind.

The same character also has Marauder and Pugilist at Rank 25, and therefore have the option to complete quests that make the job trees for Dark Knight, Thief, Monk, and Soldier available as well.

So the character can be a Thief (i.e. use abilities from the Thief Job Tree) whether wielding an ax, knuckles, or sword. If the character decides to start ranking up Thaumaturge at 1, he will not have access to any of the abilities of the Thief Job Tree while wielding either a wand or radical (conjurer weapons), even if he gets Conjurer to Rank 25, because Thief is not an available job tree to Conjurers.

As I type this out I think I'm remembering why I do not like specialization trees. But let me reserve judgment until you have a chance to respond. Like I said before, I can be mistaken.

[Kurokikaze]

Let's see if I get it. Again, I am obtuse at times. Please take no offense at my ignorance.

So Gladiator (Sword User) can at a certain Swordsmanship rank (say Rank 25) have the option to complete a quest that makes a specific job tree available. Paladin, Dark Knight, Samurai, Soldier, and/or Thief comes to mind.

The same character also has Marauder and Pugilist at Rank 25, and there for have the option to complete quests that make the job trees for Dark Knight, Thief, Monk, and Soldier available as well.

So the character can be a Thief (i.e. use abilities from the Thief Job Tree) whether wielding an ax, knuckles, or sword. If the character decides to start ranking up Thaumaturge at 1, he will not have access to any of the abilities of the Thief Job Tree while wielding either a wand or radical (conjurer weapons), even if he gets Conjurer to Rank 25, because Thief is not an available job tree to Conjurers.

As I type this out I think I'm remembering why I do not like specialization trees. But let me reserve judgment until you have a chance to respond. Like I said before, I can be mistaken.

First off, under my proposal certain Advanced Classes will be made possible from a particular Base Class. You would not have Thief/Dark Knight appearing for Pugilist and Gladiator (one or the other) otherwise its both unfair and unbalanced. When I put that in the OP I said those were examples of where they could be based on Dagger falling under Sword in FFXIV.

If they used this and Pugilist turns into a Thief/Monk/Ninja then if you want to level a Thief you will have to start as a Pugilist.

If that player starts playing Thaumaturge they will not have access to the Thief specs unless they switch back to Gladiator.

I think you're confusing yourself with the FFT unlocks that were suggested. I'd personally rather not have them but players seem to want it and it works with the system so whatever.

[Sorel]

First off, under my proposal certain Advanced Classes will be made possible from a particular Base Class. You would not have Thief/Dark Knight appearing for Pugilist and Gladiator (one or the other) otherwise its both unfair and unbalanced. When I put that in the OP I said those were examples of where they could be based on Dagger falling under Sword in FFXIV.

If they used this and Pugilist turns into a Thief/Monk/Ninja then if you want to level a Thief you will have to start as a Pugilist.

If that player starts playing Thaumaturge they will not have access to the Thief specs unless they switch back to Gladiator.

I think you're confusing yourself with the FFT unlocks that were suggested. I'd personally rather not have them but players seem to want it and it works with the system so whatever.

I might be. If so I apologize. I'm trying to learn your system so that I do not prejudge or leap to false conclusions (e.g. this is too restrictive). I may eventually come to that conclusion, but I don't want to before I completely understand what you are proposing.

If I understand what you just stated, the only way for a character to gain access to the Monk Job Tree is to rank Hand-to-Hand up. The only way for a character to gain access to the Dark Knight Job Tree is to rank Swordsmanship up. The only way for a character to gain access to the Berserker Job Tree is to rank Axemanship.

In order to have a Berserker that uses a sword, or a Dark Knight that uses an axe, or a Monk that uses a staff, we would need to have those Job Trees have traits like "Equip Sword", "Equip Axe", and "Equip Staff" in order to bypass the Armory System rules.

Or not, and just have those particular job trees be restricted to the weapon of the underlying Armory Class. Just so that we're clear, I am certainly not recommending that. And I don't think you are either.

Have I got it so far, or am I completely off in left field here?

[Kurokikaze]

I might be. If so I apologize. I'm trying to learn your system so that I do not prejudge or leap to false conclusions (e.g. this is too restrictive). I may eventually come to that conclusion, but I don't want to before I complete understand what you are proposing.

If I understand what you just stated, the only way for a character to gain access to the Monk Job Tree is to rank Hand-to-Hand up. The only way for a character to gain access to the Dark Knight Job Tree is to rank Swordsmanship up. The only way for a character to gain access to the Berserker Job Tree is to rank Axemanship.

In order to have a Berserker that uses a sword, or a Dark Knight that uses an axe, or a Monk that uses a staff, we would need to have those Job Trees have traits like "Equip Sword", "Equip Axe", and "Equip Staff" in order to bypass the Armory System rules.

Or not, and just have those particular job trees be restricted to the weapon of the underlying Armory Class. Just so that we're clear, I am certainly not recommending that. And I don't think you are either.

Have I got it so far, or am I completely off in left field here?

You would not be able to use Equip Sword, Equip Axe, Equip Staff on another spec besides the one that gets it... That restriction is there to prevent what we have now.

I'm working under the assumption that SE will not change its Weapon = Class feature.

[Sorel]

You would not be able to use Equip Sword, Equip Axe, Equip Staff on another spec besides the one that gets it... That restriction is there to prevent what we have now.

I'm working under the assumption that SE will not change its Weapon = Class feature.

So that I am clear, this restriction is to prevent what, precisely? No sarcasm. I am just unclear.

[Shuichi]

Let's see if I get it. Again, I am obtuse at times. Please take no offense at my ignorance.

So Gladiator (Sword User) can at a certain Swordsmanship rank (say Rank 25) have the option to complete a quest that makes a specific job tree available. Paladin, Dark Knight, Samurai, Soldier, and/or Thief comes to mind.

The same character also has Marauder and Pugilist at Rank 25, and therefore have the option to complete quests that make the job trees for Dark Knight, Thief, Monk, and Soldier available as well.

So the character can be a Thief (i.e. use abilities from the Thief Job Tree) whether wielding an ax, knuckles, or sword. If the character decides to start ranking up Thaumaturge at 1, he will not have access to any of the abilities of the Thief Job Tree while wielding either a wand or radical (conjurer weapons), even if he gets Conjurer to Rank 25, because Thief is not an available job tree to Conjurers.

As I type this out I think I'm remembering why I do not like specialization trees. But let me reserve judgment until you have a chance to respond. Like I said before, I can be mistaken.

In order to be a THF, a character must have achieved level 20/25/XX of the base class Pugilist (PUG would be the foundation for all branching classes). Then, by completing the correct class quest, they are rewarded with a dagger that can only be used by THF. In order to change classes to THF, they would need to equip the appropriate arm. They can only access THF abilities by equipping a THF appropriate weapon. Since THF is an specialized class, most (if not all) of their actions can only be equipped on the action bar by the class THF. This would, however, require some reworking as to which class can equip which weapon.

If you look at PUG right now in FFXIV it actually shares traits from MNK/NIN/THF.
MNK: Uses martial arts. (Pummel)
NIN: Uses debuffing tactics to debilitate enemies (Concussive Blow)
THF: Uses evasive tactics and attacks enemies from vulnerable spots (Blindside, Featherfoot)

So if a player has a goal of becoming a THF (under this system we would have player development goals), they would need to start out with PUG, reach the branching point, and complete the quest to develop THF.