[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Youngblood]

I like the idea Kaze and your post is extremely well thought out and organized. The skill tree maybe a bit overused in mmo's but how else would you organize it? I'd be willing to have these classes back to have stradegy and class uniqueness. Of course adding the extra classes will be awsome too like Bard/Dancer or Summoner/Blue Mage.

Now for something else I thought of they would need a starting class based on the skill trees you presented so I was thinking something like this....

Entertainer > adv. job Bard/Dancer = Would participate in a variety of musical or entertainment quest and use musical insturments and daggers or knuckles as their arms.

Tamer(this beginning class is tough to name so suggestions would be nice ;3) > adv. jo Summoner/Blue Mage = Would participate in a variety of monster taming, monster skill knowlege quest and use staffs and swords or daggers.

That's all I have atm!

[Josho]

Great idea, well thought out too. Would be cool if something like this were to be implemented.

[Munba]

Those are excellent ideas Kuroki and very well described (i had some in my mind too). I like it.

[Shazaam]

I like the idea, and starting the class quests at the 20-30 range seems like the ideal point to start. Just enough time to learn the basics, creating a low-level 'destination' to aim for, and rectifying the class blandness that comes from all the 'gray mages'. I would however like to see cross-class requirements, such as GLD 25, PUG 15 to unlock a THF class. Or perhaps a GLD 25, THM 15 to unlock DRK.

Also, the addition of another DOM base class would be neccessary at some point to even out the number of melee to magic classes. Not now, but perhaps in an expansion, introduce the new DOM base class, with branches to BLU, SMN, or BRD. (It allows room for growth and future balancing, which every MMO NEEDS).

Thank you Kaze. HOPE! REMEMBER THE FIRST RULE OF FC!

[Demacia]

I really hope the devs are keeping an eye on this thread. Wonder what the JPs are coming up with?

[Cairdeas]

The JP's don't see Classes like you would from WoW, because the names are simple like "Sword User" they understand that Classes are not Jobs.

[Kurokikaze]

If I replaced the word "Base Classes" with "<Weapon> User" and kept the name "Advanced Classes" or used "Job" for the traditional FF classes. What I've laid out would still work with no other changes because it's the same thing.

The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't matter what they call it. As long as players can relate to it they will approach it.

I like the idea Kaze and your post is extremely well thought out and organized. The skill tree maybe a bit overused in mmo's but how else would you organize it? I'd be willing to have these classes back to have stradegy and class uniqueness. Of course adding the extra classes will be awsome too like Bard/Dancer or Summoner/Blue Mage.

Now for something else I thought of they would need a starting class based on the skill trees you presented so I was thinking something like this....

Entertainer > adv. job Bard/Dancer = Would participate in a variety of musical or entertainment quest and use musical insturments and daggers or knuckles as their arms.

What I was trying to avoid was getting rid of disciplines and putting them on certain paths. If I take your suggestion and put it along with mine I would give PUG the option to go become a DNC. Instead of starting a new base, Entertainer in your case, and going from there.

Either route needs lore attached to it; but I think my approach requires less and can be built on top.

[Anathiel]

hey kuro, I'm being serious when I ask this and I'm not trying to start a fight, or flame/troll. Can you explain to me how this isn't the spec system from world of warcraft?

[notebene]

I guess I'd reserve judgement until I saw it in action, and then made a decision about whether that is appealing to me and stay or go, but on the surface, it seems like taking away one of the things that drew me to the game.

On the one hand, I had to re-think being an altaholic, because quite frankly, I couldn't afford it (charging per alt is frankly every bit as unnerving as the way the cable industry and the cellphone industry operate). When I found out you could 'be' everything, problem solved. I picked one of my 3 characters from beta, picked a starting outfit based on class, and came into the world on a boat. That was fun.

Now, I'm mostly a Con, but have some Thm in there too. However, I mostly solo, and find the times I do group are when I happen to be around for one of the hourly camp runs (no, I don't remember the term for them off the top of my head, and I'm not going to go look it up). If later on I get into a guild or decide to do PUG dungeons or what have you, I'd like to be a healer, but when I'm mostly soloing, I need to take care of myself. If you make me build a talent tree, I'm stuck. I'd have to build a tree that was a mish-mash of white and black (as you put it) and be worthless at each, but be mildly amusing while I solo, I guess.

Beyond that, I also had dreams of making it big as a conjurer getting all the way to the end, or far enough along until I got bored, and then move to Gridania and become an archer and start working more on my carpentry and leatherworking. If I'm stuck with my one tree, and I don't get a tree every time I change my class, well that's horrible. All that does is make me need alts, and a mail system, and I can't afford that in this game (when they turn that faucet back on, and they will).

As it stands now, I'm happy to give them $13/mo to move forward with one character that can be anything I want at the flip of a switch, but if you start making specialized classes that you can't change at the drop of a hat, it won't be the fun "sand box" any more.

The next year will be interesting to watch, or maybe 6 months. They made a sand box, and it was 'really' nice to see a sand box in a sea of strict class based amusement park MMOs which liter the landscape these days. Even the 'new' game to remain nameless beside the 'old' game to remain nameless is that same model. Granted, the 'new nameless' has done some interesting things with classes, but it's still very linear, and you can't just be 'whatever' by moving stuff around. The only other games I can remember that were more of a sand box were UO and the original SWG - but those suffered from long grinds to flip.

I think FFXIV did something interesting with their classes, and while I'll reserve judgement, it seems like what a lot of you are asking for is to undo that sand box, for whatever reason, and it's a bit sad.

[Kurokikaze]

hey kuro, I'm being serious when I ask this and I'm not trying to start a fight, or flame/troll. Can you explain to me how this isn't the spec system from world of warcraft?

Dude, its funny you ask that cause I said it in the OP. lol

Somewhere in this thread when someone called this "unique" I replied:

"Theres absolutely nothing unique about this. I took something that works other games (namely WoW), put Final Fantasy words on it, and came up with a way that they could introduce this into the game."

Difference here is that not only can you switch Advanced Jobs (specs) but you can still change your Base Class (class) when you want as long as not in combat of course.

Also, we were talking about this on BG and I figured it would help people more closely evaluate what is being suggested.

Action Points Menu and Talent Trees are the exact same thing. The only difference is that Talent Trees have a visual aspect that can more closely serve as guidelines for players.

No you're right, they DONT need a talent tree because the current Actions menu accomplishes that except that it's menu driven and not visual. They work identically except that the trees give you a visual representation. The best example I could give is this (btw I don't care if you like the license board from 12 or not. just using it as an example):

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Imagine this. Now take all the abilities/traits that are currently in our Actions menu on the board. Scatter them out appropriately throughout the board (cures for WHM, nukes for CON and debuffs for RDM). They would also need to add in things that help that class (WHM would have like +5% potency, RDM could have +5% cure casting). Not just limited to stats like that they can get really crazy (BLM: When an offensive magic spell crits your next cast will have 20% of its cost reduced)

Now you further divide each section (impose limits to prevent abuse) into levels. Keep it simple for now with 5 levels. You need to put a certain amount of points into BLM Lv1 before you can use points on abilities/skills/traits in BLM Lv2. This would prevent overreaching that is happening now with people using Rank 30+ traits on different classes.

So you get what I'm saying? They don't need the tree or the talent points. Thats just a visual representation of what they currently have in place in the Action Menu.