[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[RisaCooper]

I love Kurokikaze's idea, I actually had an idea of a similar fashion ^_^

[solracht]

Gladiator is basically just sword, however, which is what I've been going on for a while.

Also, all that's needed to join a guild is to use the appropiate weapon. The Colisseum welcomes fighters who use sword - anyone that uses a sword (this would include paladins, dark knights, warriors, red mages, etc). The Astalacia considers a pirate those that use axes, etc.

I thought it was clear from the pictures, but current classes aren't left behind - they're leveled up along. Jobs take the place of physical levels, and classes keep the place of rank. When you level your red mage, you do so alongside your gladiator (your sword skill), your conjurer (conjury skill) or thaumaturge (thaumaturgy skill) depending on which weapon you're using to level up as your Red Mage.

When you use your red mage, you're using thaumaturge's skills (Slow, Slow II), conjurer's skills (Cure, Fire, etc) and others. These skills and others are boosted and Red Mage itself has a list of passive and active bonuses (as shown by the templates).

I'd like to make clear that I am not pitting this system against yours, just clarifying what was in the picture. Personally I'll be happy as long as they move away from what we currently have, no matter the outcome.

[bersha-sensei]

I like the table, but I do not like to start advanced work at 30, preferred to enjoy the 1-50 at its best

[Kurokikaze]

Since you put it that way - I think both our approaches are fairly similar with key differences:

1. Relies heavily on FFT unlocks - I'm an FFXI player first and foremost so I'm ok with a grind but don't you think some of this is a little excessive for casual players? In your example you would need level 4 weapons to even start playing WHM from Level 1.
2. Traits/Skills - If I'm understanding this right, you would learn these passives and skills for these jobs automatically as you level. They aren't something that players will have to configure themselves, except their loadout of abilities on the action bar.

I see no difference to FFXI in how this pans out in the end. As I said before, you're telling me I have to skill up weapons to unlock a job. The job is essentially just being maxed out and getting its preset traits/skills just like it did in XI. After understanding it better, sorry, I still don't agree. You eliminate a lot of class customization with that. There was virtually none in XI until BLU was introduced.

I don't like that. I'd like to have a choice and decide for myself what traits/skills/talents/license/whatever are best for the role I'm playing.

[Josh]

This is an excellent idea and I am very much in favor of its implementation.

[Kurokikaze]

Sorry I just gotta say this... Great LS name. LOL

[Tyrant]

I'm a fan of quest driven ability unlocks, and what is being discussed here in this thread would be a great candidate for that system.

I advocate dedicating FFXIV's advanced jobs to being mastered through questing and only questing. Divide the abilities into bundles and require sufficient training with the advanced job through unique quests. Have these advanced job quests crisscross other advanced job quests and normal quests to encourage mutual aid, so that two different advanced jobs on the same phase - albeit only for their respective advanced jobs - would coincidentally find one another by virtue of being tasked to the same dungeon. Let these two adventurers then strike up a friendly conversation and join forces, performing all the more efficiently despite being on separate quests.

Akin to fame building, the adventurer acquire abilities through accessing and completing unique quests by accessing and completing other unique quests. This need not be linear. The quests can form a web instead of a chain, governed by player choices and circumstances such as whether the weather is rainy. The intrepid hero can track down all possible unique quests if he wishes, but completing enough quests on a ring of the grand web would allow him advancement to the next ring. Create multiple mission arcs around advanced job mastery, culminating in missions that unseal tiers of the talent/license/grid for that advanced job.

I miss the aspect of old FFXI, when I played, where players assisted one another to tear down job access and level barriers. The old FFXI barriers against character progression may deserve complaints, but I did admire the banding together that it generated among players. Here is a chance to make players undertake well-designed fun quests to earn abilities and support server communities.

SE has already made a feeble attempt at such a system for FFXIV: Guild Marks. The Guild Marks are awarded by adventurer guilds through the utilization of random leves and random rewards. These should not be used for advanced jobs and instead remain as an introductory mechanism for the basic jobs. It would prepare newer players for when they eventually have to truly earn their stripes from unique and non-random advanced job quests. Let deeds and renown be the currency with which great respect and skill are earned, not the coin of petty guilds.

I believe this would lead to basic jobs concentrating on ranks and guild leves for progression while advanced jobs concentrated on quests and missions for progression. This should provide significant content, lasting gameplay, and goal-orientated drive. SE certainly could use the motivation to generate a large number of quality FF quests.

[the_limitless]

Solracht, good job on the table, look very interesting and a fun system, moreover it sticked with the traditional name, although it kinda butchered the lore a little(ie. lancer to dragoon the dragon knight, a bit far fetched in my opinion). And its not too hardcore of a system since they only need rank 20 jobs which take probably a week to level. Although I find the dragoon part a bit too lancer(can t find a better phrase) probably add more jobs archer or marauder for example.

Moreover, since SE is going to kill the lore with the reintroduction of traditional names, might as well make a more fun system then we can think about a new lore or modify the current one (some gladiator become paladin for example).

[Betelgeuzah]

Regarding specializations, I don't like the idea of talent 'trees' (as I think it limits our options too much) and I'm not sure if talent points are needed either. I don't see how current action points and gaining abilities through leveling up couldn't do the job.

Aside from that, otherwise I think that this is the way to go. However, we should discuss the limitations as well. I think that being able to change classes when not engaged (like it is currently) and being able to change specializations while in town would be most effective without sacrificing freedom needlessly.

Regarding questing for abilities, that sounds like something that would require so much work before they can even introduce the new armoury system that I'm not sure if that would be a good thing to do. I doubt the quests would be anything special either, since there has to be so many of them that only mass production-style would get us anywhere anytime soon.

Lastly, I would like it if the current base classes were kept as their own specializations as well. What I mean is, that as a Gladiator you could specialize to being either Paladin, Dark Knight or Gladiator. This instead of PLD and DRK replacing GLA at rank 30 or whatever. I'm sure there are those who like the existing classes and how they function (not to mention I am sure they will be refined in the coming months as well), so it would be nice to have them around. Similarly in XI you weren't required to change from Warrior to PLD or DRK at level 30 but could keep leveling your Warrior further instead.

[babycakin]

I really like what you have here Kuro =D.

Not sure if they would go as far as adding a Skill Tree system but you are defintely on the right track ^^